Now here’s a topic you almost never see raised in writers’ groups. For good reason—by-and-large, it’s much more helpful to approach this topic from the opposite, positive perspective: that is to say, how to give and receive a constructive review. (Note: throughout this blog post I shall use the terms “critique” and “review” interchangeably.)

So first, let’s enumerate the attributes and practices of a constructive reviewer (of which Sue, Tom and Atthys—among others—are masters).  

A constructive reviewer will:

1.) Flag problematic areas of text without resorting to snark or sniping. 

2.) Find something genuinely positive (supported by the writing) to highlight. 

3.) Frame suggestions as “I thought at this point” or “have you considered?” or “this puts me in mind of _____; did you intend . . . ?” Shun emphatic: “You really f#cked up here, pal!” declarative statements.

4.) Avoid commenting on how the writing impacted their emotional state (unless positive). 

5.) Read the writer’s text carefully. 

6.) Understand that a self-deprecating sense of wry humor and/or “in-the-trenches-with-you” camaraderie engenders trust and openness. (Animals expose their bellies to show trust. Proffering your manuscript to another person and asking for a critique is, existentially speaking, a similar act.) 

7.) Always remember: Respect earns respect.

8.) Be more coach than oracle. (Quick: Who were your favorite teachers in school? The coldly imperious, doctrinaire and/or sarcastic set? Those who talked at you instead of with you? No, I didn’t think so . . .) 

9. Respect the reviewed writer for taking chances, even if—in the reviewer’s opinion—the writer failed to accomplish what they set out to do. 

10. Critique the writing for what it is, not for what it is not. This doesn’t mean that the reviewer should refrain from addressing errors in the text (of grammar, historicity, inauthentic dialogue, etc.) It means that the reviewer doesn’t react to a writer’s tragic text by telling them it would work better if it were a little less tragic—a comedy, perhaps. Or a one-panel New Yorker cartoon. (“Does it have to be a story?”) That kind of thing. 

One note before proceeding: a neutral review is not a destructive review. A neutral review (usually given when the reviewer is pressed for time) simply highlights what is not working in the text for the reviewer in as direct and succinct a manner as possible without cushioning “rah-rah” statements to soften the blows of critique. I prefer neutral reviews of my work. As I’ve stated: It saves time. The reviewer isn’t racking their brains for positive things to say immediately before and after highlighting a problematic area of the text. This technique is called “the critique sandwich”. (Example: “Your story moves at a brisk pace until that extended info dump re: malfunctioning doggie squeak toys on pp. 23-25did you intend the reader to be amused as well as somewhat overwhelmed by insider industry knowledge?though overall the book’s pacing and deft, incisive strokes of characterization . . .”) The critique sandwich certainly helps “the medicine go down”but can be mentally exhausting for the reviewer, as well as somewhat patronizing to the reviewed.

Now let’s talk about the destructive review. Dear literary gods in their manifold heavens, where to begin?

Perhaps by listening to a quote of Joyce Carol Oates: “I believe that any form of art is a species of exploration and transgression. … Art by its nature is a transgressive act, and artists must accept being punished for it. The more original and unsettling their art, the more devastating the punishment.” 

If you write an effective piece of fiction—albeit one that demolishes unexamined verities and/or probes the circumstances and motivations of the darker, more perverse aspects of human nature—brace for snarling contempt, histrionic outrage and bitter vituperation from some quarters as your reward. Or baffled confessions that are actually thinly veiled protestations: “Why did you choose subject x? Employ technique y? Adopt tone z? It made me crazy! I don’t know what you’re trying to do here…”

That’s if you write an effective piece of fiction. Now if you should stumble and write an ineffective piece of fiction . . . 

We all might wish that the professional literary world be full of warm, compassionate human beings who communicate their empathy, intelligence and professional wisdom by expressing themselves with tact, courtesy and rueful good humor to all and sundry. Yes, we all might so wish! Alas, this is not the case. And there is no one better skilled at flaying with words than a practiced writer. You think your uncle Joe’s or cousin Suzie’s offhand, inarticulate comments misreading your text were upsetting? Wait till an accomplished fictioneer starts in on you! For economy of motion and maximum impact in the deliverance of “death-by-a-thousand-cuts-criticisms” the work of a pro cannot be matched. It is a thing of beauty: oftentimes as ID-tickling amusing as it is abrupt, nasty, idiosyncratic and censorious. (See: Poe vs. Longfellow, Hemingway vs. F. Scott Fitzgerald, David Foster Wallace vs. John Updike, Mark Twain vs. Bret Harte, H. G. Wells vs. Henry James, etc.)

Exhibit A: I am now going to share with you a critique experience I recently had with a professional writer who considers themselves a friend. (Name withheld to protect their privacy.) Not solely to vent (though of course there is that aspect to the matter) but because I think others can learn from it.

Disguising certain particulars of what exactly was said, here is how my professional reviewer delivered a critique of a couple pieces of writing I asked him to review. He: 

1.) Made repeated references to how the writing had negatively impacted his emotional state. (No warning of “don’t send me triggering stories concerning subject X” beforehand.) 

2.) Urged that I directly quote a writer mentioned in one of my texts. (But I did quote that writer: twice. In that very same text. What were we saying about close reading, please?) 

3.) Smarmily and testily informed me that I should be billed for causing him to “read 32,000 words of Carl E. Reed text” over the course of five stories. (I sent six. And specifically noted beforehand: “Please choose one . . . or two . . . to comment on. I’ve submitted six to give you review options, not homework; good grief!” I could not have been clearer in my intentions/expectations. Mind you, this whilst simultaneously working my way through one of his 500-page novels. “I should bill you for reading 175,000 words . . .”) 

4.) Suggested I have my protagonist (in a horror story) fight someone or something to be “more like Indiana Jones”. Then—comically, almost in the very next sentence—objected that the three black-robed antagonists my protagonist did fight toward the latter end of the tale put him in mind of “Luke Skywalker fighting in the tree”. So . . . no fighting, then? Or fighting that doesn’t—in any way, shape or form—put one in mind of fighting done by someone else, sometime earlier or later, elsewhere? I’m confused. 

5.) Made absurd, off-the-wall suggestions re: multiple stories that would have completely demolished or transformed beyond all recognition authorial narrative flow, plot, tone and theme. (Example: complained that a bookish, sociopathic, high I.Q. juvenile monster in one of my tales wrote glowingly in his journal of the writings of Ayn Rand and others instead of being influenced by TikToc videos.)

6.) Ignored themes and metaphors (literalized or otherwise). My reviewer was completely blind/impervious/indifferent to same. I mean, nary a word mentioned regarding what is to me the central justification for the existence of literature: what the machinations of plot and the collision of divers characters within a story mean; what it all adds up to re: commentary on the human condition.

7.)  Made cutting comments throughout the text whenever he encountered wordage deemed problematic. (Full disclosure: He apologized in a prefatory email for the many “dyspeptic comments” my writing prompted him to articulate.)  

8.) Flagged as textual “errors” subtleties that were lost on him. (Example: In one instance, I described a person smoking a cigarette exhaling “blue-gray smoke”. Later, a passing truck backfires and emits a pungent whiff of “blue-gray smoke”. This is an intentional highlighting and callback to the fact that the truck is emitting a whiff of smoke every bit as toxic as the smoker’s cigarette: the identical phrasing of similar events in differing instances serving to create a leitmotif, which itself underlines and dramatizes the hot-house, claustrophobic toxicity addressed in the tale.) 

9.) Seemed more interested in crafting cutting comments than in reading closely, deeply and well. One story (whose tone, plot and thematic material was influenced by my currently reading Tragedy, the Greeks, and Us; Simon Critchley) I submitted to him for review opened with the following epigraph:

…………………………..

Tragedy is built of one part fate, one part willing surrender to nihilistic impulses and perverse compulsions. It is both existential horror and chaotic mystery, striking the person of Apollonian and Dionysian temperament alike. Above all else, tragedy crushes the spirit and breaks the mind, leaving psychic ruin—and manifold death—in its wake.

—Anonymous

…………………………..

A richer, more lapidary and polysyllabic than normal use of the mother tongue, perhaps; but hardly impenetrable or so confoundingly recondite that it defeats comprehension. It draws upon philosophy, psychology, mysticism and ancient Greek theatrical art (tragedy) for its meaning. His response?

“Wow, this quote! I had a tough time following the bangs of this nailgun procession of ideas. I’ve torn it apart a couple of times and it still doesn’t make sense.”

I could go on, but to what end? Why include an entirely superfluous point #10? I think you get the picture. My industry professional (20+ novels and counting to date) “friendly” reviewer was angry, distraught (remember: triggered by the material), contemptuous, sarcastic, belittling and resolutely downbeat throughout his back-handed, teeth-gritted, unforgivably sloppy critique of my work. It amounted to an act of intellectual violence.

Yes, there were occasional helpful suggestions made and errors flagged during the course of the critique. (Example: He flagged the use of the word “astronaut” in a 1930s pulp sci-fi tale as an anachronism. Nice catch! And quite right. I changed the word to “spaceman”.) The problem is, the ratio of these constructive-to-destructive comments was running at something like 20-to-1. Nevertheless . . .

The trick when receiving a destructive critique is to salvage what you can from the morass of misreading, misattribution (of authorial intent and accomplishment + references back to things in the text that simply aren’t there; or that are there and were slighted/overlooked/denigrated), sarcastic comments and wildly wrong-footed, bizarre suggestions. (Sarcasm kills communication, which is exactly what it is intended to do. It is the lowest form of wit, as the joke is always assumed to have been made.)

So . . . How did I react?  

With as much decency, kindness and appreciation as I could muster.  

His bad day did not mean that I needed to become completely unglued. Though it hurt. Maaannn, it hurt . . . ! (Don’t deny the reality of your feelings; acknowledge and manage them. Stay grounded and real. And remember: to the world-at-large this is a meaningless—even somewhat comical—overwrought piffle. Writer drama; heh! :::person pulls up chair; dives hand into bag of popcorn:::)

I thanked him for putting in so much time (you always—always!—owe your reviewer thanks; no exceptions), demurred re: a couple of his factually wrong/misreading comments (citing brief, pertinent reasons proving why he was wrong drawn directly from the texts he disparaged), and stated (not apologized) that I would never have submitted material to him that was intentionally triggering. Then I assured him that the overall message he’d communicated was well and truly received. Crystal clear. Five-by-five. As a postscript, I closed by offering truthful, sincere and measured praise of his penultimate novel. (Be a class act!)

And now we come to the over-arching, brutal, dispiriting truth of the matter, friends and neighbors—fellow knights of the quill—earnest midnight (or is that crack of dawn, or mid-day?) tireless scritch-scribblers: As you begin to get noticed in the particular genre in which you write, the venomous bitchy darts directed your way from certain quarters (“friendly” and otherwise) only increase in number, toxicity and force. Those who have made it are oftentimes annoyed that a new “proud bird, beautified with our feathers” dares to preen and strut his or her colors before editors who have turned a considering, speculative eye your way. Many writers have a zero-sum view of the publishing game: If you are on the rise, they must be on the decline. (“Whenever a friend succeeds, I die a little.”—Gore Vidal) Or you’re “doing it all wrong”: Your choice of subject matter, perspective, and/or technique offends and irritates. It’s not what they do or the way they do it, you see. Or they’ve simply taken it upon themselves to properly initiate you into the blood guild with the requisite amount of sneering contempt and/or self-transfixing snide witticisms. (“My, aren’t I clever/funny/tough!”) 

At some point in their writing life (amateur, semi-pro or pro) a writer will have their work subjected to destructive critique. Count on it. The trick is to weather this distressing experience with as much dignity as you can muster. Do as little self-defensive squawking as possible, earnestly endeavor to recognize and implement the constructive criticisms proffered by your savage reviewer, and most of all—most especially of all—continue to write afterward.

If you are truly a writer, you have no other choice. You must continue to write—with courage and skill, heart and intelligence—as best you know how. 

Believe that your ideal reader is out there. 

Have faith that practice in the craft will improve your literary skills. (And read, read, read—everything that interests you, regardless of whether or not it falls within your chosen genre.)

Have I mentioned that your ideal reader—the one who “gets you”—is out there? 

You deserve to find each other.

And you will—if you continue to write . . . and learn . . . and grow.

:::::Dispatch from the forward edge of the battle area 10/28/22: Yours Truly, Carl E. Reed:::::

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100 responses to “Surviving the Destructive Critique”

  1. Sandy Randall Avatar

    Excellent conversation starter Carl. You made me think back to every critic I have ever encountered, whether for my written work, my visual art, or whatever I happened to wear on a particular day!
    Honestly though, critics abound. How we deal with any criticism boils down to where we are personally on any given subject. If you’re a fashionista, every hair done just so … You might be undone by the person who looks at you crosseyed and says, “Is that a zit?”
    I grew up in a household of boys. Didn’t matter what I did. Faintly girlie and I was ridiculed from one end to the other. Took a long time to let anyone read my writing, and only those I trusted with my feelings. Then I went to college. My freshman year, I was 18, young and completely clueless to the world and writing, though I fancied myself a decent writer. You can imagine the ice water dumped on my head … What I didn’t realize, at the time, was the difference between rabid, unhinged “Your work sucks” unhelpful critique and the helpful, yet tough, thoughtful critique. To me they were the same. They hurt my feelings. Hindsight … I regret the missed opportunities for true writing growth. One professor who now notably stands out in my memory, was Cleo. He was old (ok at that age anyone over 40 is old, but I think he was born early 1900’s and this was 1983/84). Cleo was blind, old and black. He was also the kindest, yet one of the firmest, teachers I ever had. This man recorded our voices so he knew who we were. Then he had someone read our research papers to him. I had help writing my paper. He knew exactly which parts I wrote and which parts I had help with. He was very thorough in his critiques. He taught writing through listening. You mentioned the difference between those who talk at you as opposed to those who talk to you. Cleo was my introduction to collaborative instruction. He is my compass point for all received criticism to this day, simply because he taught me how to listen, something I am still working to master, 40 years later. I wish I had spent more time appreciating that class. Funny thing, it wasn’t even a writing class. It was called Freshman Seminar. Writing a research paper was the key project, but the real purpose was to teach you how to be a successful student further in your career. I didn’t finish college, even after three attempts. But I’ll never forget Cleo.

    Liked by 6 people

    1. GD Deckard Avatar

      I love pithy criticism: Mailer said of another author, “He said she was beautiful because he couldn’t make her so.”

      Liked by 3 people

  2. Carl E. Reed Avatar

    Thank you for this powerful and moving homage to a great teacher! Cleo personifies a truth Zig Ziglar preaches to sales people: “No one cares how much you know, until they first know how much you care.”

    Liked by 5 people

    1. Sandy Randall Avatar

      Exactly. I just hope he knew that his wisdom wasn’t wasted, just that I wasn’t ready to fully understand his gift. His own life story was incredible. After reading some of Toni Morrison’s work, I felt like he fell out of one of her stories. A personification of someone who survived sharecropping and the Jim Crow laws and became a kind teacher. Perhaps, without realizing it, his personal story taught me far more than just writing and being a good student. On the other hand, I’ve also had some horrible examples that taught me how NOT to be. Later on, try two of college attempts, I had a English teacher who felt the need to read Homer’s Iliad to us. I wish I had recorded him. His voice was a great cure for insomnia.
      However, to the point of your post … It is so true, that no matter how the feedback is delivered, there is always some value. Even if it’s confirmation that the notes are only worth starting a fire … there is value in kindling after all …

      Liked by 6 people

  3. Sue Ranscht Avatar

    Good points, one and all, Carl. To me, the most important beginning of any critique is careful reading of the work in question. Without that, I suppose it’s possible to offer some superficial thoughts, but nothing of substance.

    I’m not sure professional writers necessarily make even adequate critics. I had a children’s story critiqued by an author who had co-written a fact-based children’s story about a non-speaking autistic woman. My story is about a little child (gender non-specific) whose goal is to go faster than lightning. After excelling at running, the MC studies and practices to excel at race car driving, jet plane flying, and rocket science, but the smartest scientists insist there’s a Scientific Rule that nothing can go faster than lightning. Having become a rocket scientist, the MC continues to study and ultimately discovers the math that leads to inventing a brand new kind of space craft that can, in fact, go faster than lightning.

    Sometimes fulfilling a dream takes a lifetime. Never take no for an answer.

    There are copious back matter entries (for adults) referencing time travel throughout literature as far back as the Quran. There are notes about what scientists from Einstein to Kaku have to say about the possibility of time travel, ending with, “But even Hawking agreed with other brilliant scientists that nothing has proven time travel is impossible.” (Stephen Hawking’s 1999 Space and Time Warps lecture.)

    Here’s the complete crap sandwich critique by the professional writer:

    “I like the originality of the concept. I would like to see a female character become a rocket scientist to promote women in STEM. Overall, I think she should want to know more and have as a goal to get to Mars or some planet to answer some question she has. The notion of changing the rules of science does not really work. Keep going with this cool STEM theme and I look forward to reading more!”

    Recognizing this writer really wanted to have read a different story from the one I wrote, I had to laugh at “The notion of changing the rules of science does not really work.” I wonder what Ptolemy, Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Bohr, and Planck, to name a few, would have to say about that.

    Liked by 8 people

    1. GD Deckard Avatar

      “nothing has proven time travel is impossible”
      Science has a hard time proving a negative. This might be more of a common sense question:

      If anyone/or/thing in the 13.7 billion years of universal existence has or will “invent” time travel, then it exists now and for all time. It’s Yoda science: Time travel is or is not.

      Personally, I think not. “Time” is just how humans track sequential change. And the universe is always changing. I may want to travel to yesterday, but the whole universe just ain’t gonna re-become exactly what it was yesterday because a human wants it to.

      Liked by 6 people

      1. Sandy Randall Avatar

        “the whole universe just ain’t gonna re-become exactly what it was yesterday because a human wants it to.”
        I agree … which is something I have been working on explaining in my MvA story… I still believe time travel and multiverse are different animals … related like a horse and a zebra, perhaps but still different.

        Liked by 4 people

        1. Sue Ranscht Avatar

          Over my more than 20 years of reading two picture books a day, five days a week, to young children in day care, I discovered that if the illustrations were gender-neutral, and the text was gender-non-specific, the boys thought the character was a boy and the girls thought it was a girl.

          Liked by 5 people

          1. Perry Palin Avatar
            Perry Palin

            Ha! The males in my writers group always think my narrator is a male, even after the narrator talks about wearing two inch heels and a blue blouse.

            Liked by 4 people

        2. GD Deckard Avatar

          “I still believe time travel and multiverse are different animals”
          Yup. To me at least, the concepts differ. Sci-fi stories of traveling up & down a single timeline cause logical misfires for writers.
          Besides, “up & down” and “a single time” and “line” are strictly linear. I suspect the universe is fuller than any “one way of looking” at it can encompass.
          The multiverse, though. Pick one and create your world!

          Liked by 3 people

      2. Sue Ranscht Avatar

        If time “is just how humans track sequential change” — which is linear 2-dimensional thinking — then you are implying there must be other ways to think about time. Humans also call time the fourth dimension.

        This tells me there is something beyond my human 3-dimensional existence that may be very difficult — possibly impossible — for me to comprehend. But if I think of every point in 3-D space having x, y, and z coordinates, x and y locate it in space and z locates it in time. That means each xy coordinate has an infinite number of z coordinates, from all that we consider past through all that we consider future. Of course, it also means each x and y coordinate has infinite y or x and z coordinates, supporting the theory that everything is happening all the time. We, puny 3-D beings humans are, can only experience one xyz point at a time.

        Or do we just not know how to experience more than one at a time?

        Time travel would encompass anything changing from xyz(subscript)minus infinity to xyz(subscript)infinity. I’m not asking you to see it, but maybe it would involve projections from other dimensions we do not readily recognize. Yet quantum physics postulates they are there — at least eleven in total.

        Maybe moving from one xy coordinate on the z axis to another point on the z axis would necessarily move you to a different universe or possibly only a different timeline or your own timeline but skipping over some time. What would the coordinates of another universe look like compared to where we came from? Could someone return to their original timeline?

        Hawking’s thought was that if time travel were possible, why haven’t we met any time travelers yet who could teach us how to time travel? I think they’d be smart enough not to do that, so how would we know we haven’t met any?

        Real or not, it’s a delicious concept to think about and play with.

        Liked by 5 people

        1. GD Deckard Avatar

          Spoken like a creative writer, Sue!
          Did I tell you I write sci-fi because when young I fully expected that by my age, I’d know the answers to life’s big questions and don’t, so I make up the answers to fool my younger self should he ever travel to my time?

          Liked by 4 people

          1. Sue Ranscht Avatar

            No, you didn’t tell me that, but it makes sense to me! Lol!

            Liked by 3 people

            1. GD Deckard Avatar

              🙂 I can imagine the encounter now.
              “Yup, young self. These are Life’s answers. But don’t worry about them now. Go home and play with your Legos.”

              But -damn logic!- growing up knowing I’d said that would change me along the way, wouldn’t it? And since time travel implies that time is repeatable, myself would keep getting more and more changed by the same thing until I became crazy as a runover cat.
              Wait…. This is beginning to explain a lot of things. Hmm.

              Liked by 4 people

          2. Sue Ranscht Avatar

            I wouldn’t describe time travel as “time is repeatable” — as in Bill Murray’s “Groundhog Day” or Taye Digg’s “Daybreak” where everything but the person aware of the repeating time remains reliably the same until the repeater has learned whatever lesson the universe intends to teach him. I think rather, we can imagine experiencing a particular time span again, but it can’t ever be exactly the same experience because we have continued to age. I think of this as either a forking timeline in a single universe or parallel timelines that might exist in parallel universes.

            As Sandy separates multi verses from time travel, if you jumped from a timeline in one verse to the same moment in another verse, there would be no time travel. But if you jumped to a point in time before or after the point at which you left your original timeline, there would necessarily be time travel involved — as has happened to either Dunia or Bepe in Sandy’s story.

            Or maybe you jump to a verse which is so different from your original verse that you have not existed in that timeline until you jump there. But even then, you would expect time to pass as you were accustomed to it happening.

            Beyond that, it would be a whole lot of fun to try to describe a verse where time passes differently. Of course, one way would be backwards (which Lewis Carroll already explored), and another would be repeating (randomly or at regular intervals) centered around one individual or a group of people. I’d really like to explore time as a multi-directional, non-linear movement that flows (with occasional hiccups) in currents with eddies and temporarily dead zones, more like wind than water.

            Liked by 3 people

            1. GD Deckard Avatar

              “if you jumped from a timeline in one verse to the same moment in another verse, there would be no time travel.”
              There you go, boggling minds again.

              Makes me wonder what happens to me if others are doing that. Would I notice?
              Or, is multi-verse-hopping so person-specific that everything in my verse is solely dependent on my actions alone?

              Liked by 2 people

              1. Sandy Randall Avatar

                About a year ago, I was looking for an audible book to accompany me on a drive. I wanted to hear more listens from a reader named Luke Daniels. He and Neil Gaiman are my favorite readers. Anyway, I stumbled over a campy series called “Off to be the Wizard” by author Scott Meyer. He started the series in 2013. It’s very reminiscent of a gamer writer the world as a gamer would envision it, which that understanding was very helpful in allowing me to listen without stepping out of the story to say, “but wait, how…” That and the fact Luke Daniels could read a text book and make it interesting. While not on my top ten best seller list it did a couple of things for me … It pushed me into writing my grass dragon series for my brother. (He absolutely loves Scott’s series.) It also reminded me, that as the writer, my only real responsibility to my reader, is engaging them and keeping them engaged through the last page. Simple … in theory only…🤣
                Anyhow … The series has an unusual take on time travel. Basically, the “wizards” are hackers who discover the “ultimate” code, in which the entire universe is a giant computer program … it devolves from there.
                He never really convinces me on his time travel take, but it does play a key role throughout the series and causes some serious problems … GD, you of all people my find this series fun. While the writing, to me, is definitely aimed at YA, some of the subject matter is not. There are merits to the uniqueness of the story and it does thought provoke.
                There … I’m a critic and I didn’t know it!
                See Carl … I think I found a way to stay on topic while still discussing time travel!!

                Liked by 2 people

              2. Sue Ranscht Avatar

                I’ve been developing the theory that’s what dé·​jà vu is — someone has tweaked the timeline that you’re in, in a way that has affected you, and you suddenly have a second layer of memory about a specific moment. But because we aren’t accustomed to the idea we can carry two different memories of what took place in one time span, our conscious minds interpret that event as the cloudy, mostly indistinct feeling “this has happened before.”

                Liked by 2 people

            2. Sandy Randall Avatar

              Sue, I’m glad you mentioned Lewis Carroll. There are so many instances of “The Looking Glass” and “Alice in Wonderland” types of multiverse. for instance CS Lewis and the Narnia books are all multiverse … I kind of like how he handled the years the kids spent in Narnia, only to return as they left. However, I want to divert from that. Being in another verse for thirty years … and returning when you left as hours, days or years older seems more consequential, and makes the travel less light hearted. I think it also made it tricky for Lewis to arrive at his ending, since his characters forgot the travel as they aged. I never liked that either. In order for your characters to grow and change, their experience must change them. But that was Lewis idea … now I get to write mine!

              Liked by 2 people

    2. John Correll Avatar

      I think Hawking and possibly John Conway (one of my favorite mathematicans) pointed out that in science there are only theories. No laws and no rules. Sometimes we see evidence that supports one theory or maybe not. And as far as we know, a theory is only a rough guess at the way things are. Until proven otherwise. Good theories help make reliable predictions, but that doesn’t mean they actually explain the true nature of the universe. Besides, time travel is totally possible. I’m doing it right now. And going faster than light? Well maybe quantum entanglement as something to say about that. Who knows.

      Liked by 4 people

      1. Carl E. Reed Avatar

        John: I know we’re wandering a bit from the issues raised by my blog post but that’s okay; free-wheeling, respectful and intelligent discussion is a hallmark of this site. In that vein I have to confess that I disagree with you re: a scientific theory is “only a rough guess”. That is semantically and epistemologically misleading. But don’t take my word for it:

        “In everyday use, the word ‘theory’ often means an untested hunch, or a guess without supporting evidence. But for scientists, a theory has nearly the opposite meaning. A theory is a well-substantiated explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can incorporate laws, hypotheses and facts.”

        https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/darwin/evolution-today/what-is-a-theory#:~:text=In%20everyday%20use%2C%20the%20word,incorporate%20laws%2C%20hypotheses%20and%20facts.

        Liked by 5 people

        1. John Correll Avatar

          Quiet true. I was being a bit flippant. Some theories are more precise than others. But, without an acceptable Unified Field theory, everything is still up for grabs. Absolutely everything!

          Liked by 4 people

    3. saramzerig Avatar

      Wow Carl, that sounds like a savage and largely unhelpful review, except for the few gems you were able to mine from it. Critiques are so valuable if you can find the right crew—honest, attentive, and with a genuine desire to help. I wish I had tougher critique partners before I released my first book. I have them now, but they are far more constructive than what you have described here, fortunately. I think you responded perfectly.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Carl E. Reed Avatar

    I think of Madeleine L’Engle explaining in A Wrinkle in Time of how space-time can fold in on itself to enable a traveler to move faster than light. BTW: She was driven to the edge of despair by the many rejections her manuscript received before someone finally recognized her story-telling genius. The person who critiqued you was speaking from a so-called hard science perspective, but that isn’t what you were writing. Every FTL sci-fi series out there breaks this supposed hard-and-fast rule! At least she didn’t tell you your story’s plot angered and irritated; your prose was nonsensical; you used too many words; and oh btw could you include a fight scene (already in the manuscript) and somehow work in a ticker-tape parade? Because she had fond memories of ticker-tape parades . . . And while you’re at it have you considered turning your tale into romantic comedy slash fic?

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Sandy Randall Avatar

      The part that got me was the “gender” specific. Ok as a female, I agree … promoting women in science fields is a worthy. … HOWEVER, when writing to children, by pointing out gender, you are already setting their minds to girls do this and boys do that. I object. As a girl it was really disheartening to learn that things like computer programming, and science fiction and baseball, were for boys. A story, where any child can pick it up and think, “I can do that.” or I can imagine me as the hero. Is fantastic.

      Liked by 4 people

  5. John Correll Avatar

    Carl, I love Joyce Carol Oates and Core Vidal’s quotes. I agree with all your points on a constructive reviewer except number 10. I can see a case where a reviewer might have some particular market insights that would suggest a story needs more of something that isn’t there and less of something that is. Then again, perhaps I’m misinterpreting that point.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Carl E. Reed Avatar

      I agree with you, John! That is to say, I agree that “a reviewer might have some particular market insights that would suggest a story needs more of something that isn’t there and less of something that is.”

      What I am talking about in point #10 is a matter of degree: of a destructive reviewer obstinately, willfully and perversely (it often seems) willfully misconstruing/misreading a text; projecting onto that text their own artistic or ideological desires/perspectives; or simply attacking a text because it succeeds all too well in creating a sustained mood they disapprove of. I think of the critics who (1) remonstrated with Melville for making the antagonist of Moby Dick a white whale (close paraphrase of one critic: “Couldn’t the captain be struggling w/ depravity toward voluptupous maidens?”), (2) condemned Poe for his “morbid” and “grotesque” imagination, (3) accused Toni Morrison of “self-hatred and loathing” for writing The Bluest Eye. (The novel initially met with outrage from many in the black community. It was–in Toni Morrison’s own words “widely misread”–and the initial condemnatory criticism caused her immense psychic pain.) I could cite hundreds of examples.

      My larger point (aligned with Joyce Carol Oates’) was this: There is a marked difference between valid criticism which critiques the author and his or her text based upon what the author set out to accomplish and how well they did it, vs. the “ya-ought-not-have”, “ya-shoulda”, or “why-did-you-choose-to . . .” schools of cement-headed critique. It’s called misreading for a reason.

      Liked by 6 people

      1. John Correll Avatar

        Cement-headed. What a great discription. Perfect.

        Liked by 4 people

        1. Sandy Randall Avatar

          Try rereading what Carl wrote about reviewers and change the word to retrievers…
          In my defense I have a golden retriever… so my mind saw that word first… wow does that just change the entire post….

          Liked by 4 people

  6. John Correll Avatar

    Carl, this constructive vs. destructive reviewer raises a good point that perhaps plagues us all. How do you pick or discover the right reviewer to push you and your work in the right direction (assuming there is a right way)? Trial and error? Cast a wide net? Pay somebody? I wish I knew.

    Liked by 5 people

    1. Carl E. Reed Avatar

      The only thing you can do when your texts are subjected to destructive critique is to weather the bilious invective and keep writing. Which was the entire point of my post. (And never ask that reviewer for their opinion again, heh!) Now, when the critics hunt you . . . !!!

      Liked by 5 people

  7. GD Deckard Avatar

    John, question:
    The latest estimate I saw, from NASA, was that 95% of the universe is “dark matter & dark energy.” I don’t know what that means, but I’m pretty sure we can’t sense it. Is it possible that our physical sciences spring from our physical senses, that one determines the other?

    I love empirical science. Based on observation & measurement, we can send a rocket into space, around our solar system for years, and then make it hit a specific asteroid that was selected before launch. Awesome, when you think about it. But maybe science is not adequate to explain the true nature of a universe 95% of which we cannot observe and measure.

    Carl, question:
    Can the things we understand through philosophy that science cannot explain be considered similar to our understanding of classical mechanics and quantum mechanics, in that our understanding requires both “views?”
    (Sorry for the tortured sentence. It’s late here.)

    Liked by 6 people

    1. Carl E. Reed Avatar

      “There are more things, Horatio . . .”

      Indeed! But as Carl Sagan comically noted: “There are also less.”

      😉

      Liked by 4 people

    2. Sandy Randall Avatar

      I love this whole “How does the Universe work?” Discussion… don’t be surprised to see some of this show up in MvA…
      Having said that …
      One aspect that fascinates me (and there is no way I’m using math speak … I’m not fluent in that language…) but to me #1 I’ve been reading up on the gravity theory aspect of multiverse… from what it sounds like to me, gravity acts like a membrane… so to me it seems to enter another verse you need to punch a hole or slip through the fabric of that membrane.
      Which brings me to the time travel aspect… which to me seems to affect the travelers original timeline. I look at personal timelines as a physical thing … maybe like whatever it is that anchors spirit to body. In other words, your personal timeline only goes one way… regardless of the moment you depart your verse and then return.
      I know in my original story my characters discussed returning at a different time… but if you’re returning through the same portal you left … perhaps the portal is anchored to a specific time?

      I’m still working this out and with my lack of advanced math skills… I can only explain it like an old timey sci fi write who was certain the moon was made of cheese… 😂

      Sorry Carl … more blog post diversion here!

      Liked by 3 people

      1. GD Deckard Avatar

        😏 You always were a troublemaker, weren’t you, Sandy. 😊

        Liked by 3 people

        1. Sandy Randall Avatar

          Lol I had a boss call me PITA … I was also a union rep so yeah the troublemaker fits … but I like to think I fall under John Lewis’ idea of “good trouble .”

          Liked by 3 people

      2. Sue Ranscht Avatar

        Or maybe the membranes undulate and occasionally bang into each other.

        Liked by 3 people

        1. Sandy Randall Avatar

          I think my vision is like the diaphragm in the human body … the undulations are hiccups? Hmm …. That gives me an idea to explore… thanks Sue!

          Liked by 2 people

          1. Sue Ranscht Avatar

            You’re welcome, Sandy! The diaphragm is a good example. When I first heard about branes and multi universes, I visualized the branes as infinite rubbery sheets (Oh look, another kind of diaphragm, but infinite!) in constant motion. In the natural course of their undulations affecting the gravitational fields in the vicinity, if a couple of them collided with great enough force, might that create a Big Bang?

            Liked by 2 people

            1. Sandy Randall Avatar

              Oh maybe you discovered the origin of the universe!
              That brings to mind soap bubbles and water drops and what happens when they collide.
              The answers are likely before us in the properties of water.

              Liked by 1 person

          2. Sue Ranscht Avatar

            Or the origin of many universes…

            Liked by 2 people

  8. mimispeike Avatar
    mimispeike

    Is it a good or bad idea to ask for comments on specific aspects of a work? To the exclusion of others? (This might solve some of the problems Carl has mentioned.)

    For instance: I am happy with my style and authorial attitude. I really want to hear about my logic. I think I’ve got a handle on it, but here and there a situation troubles me. Answers come to me, but sometimes very slowly.

    I have a lot of true, close to true, and could possibly be true historical detail. I worry about being jumped on by people who know the history and the period inside-out. I may be making good use of my mantra/disclaimer, below:

    Let me remind you that this is a story about a talking cat.

    Liked by 7 people

    1. GD Deckard Avatar

      Sly don’t need no stinking period historians. He was there!

      Liked by 5 people

      1. mimispeike Avatar
        mimispeike

        GD, you just put a big smile on my face.

        Liked by 4 people

        1. GD Deckard Avatar

          What a wonderful compliment. Thank you, Mimi.

          Liked by 3 people

      2. Carl E. Reed Avatar

        I agree with GD! Sly was there.

        @Mimi: You, the writer, have every right to specify the kind of criticism you’re looking for on a text. It’s your work being reviewed; entrust it only to those worthy of that trust–and who respect your boundaries as to what you’re looking for.

        Liked by 4 people

    2. Sue Ranscht Avatar

      I think it’s appropriate to ask for feedback about particular aspects of your story that you are interested in, but at the same time, I don’t believe that limits a critic to commenting on only those things.

      Liked by 5 people

  9. Carl E. Reed Avatar

    @GD: Doesn’t this feel like the old Book Country days again?! Stimulating, engaging discussion with people who still care very much about the written word, thank you.

    Stand back, I’m gonna gush: I (platonically and somber-visaged, knuckled-fist-on-chin-measuredly) love the people on this site!

    Liked by 5 people

    1. Sandy Randall Avatar

      I’m digging it too, Carl … I can’t say enough… you guys totally drew me here. I’ve been looking for you for about 50 years … WTH… I totally suck at hide n seek

      Liked by 5 people

    2. Sue Ranscht Avatar

      I never knew Book Country, may it rest in peace, but knowing the regard those of you who did seem to have for it, I am grateful to be part of this tribe. Thinking people who excel at communication. Oh, the bliss!

      Liked by 3 people

  10. DocTom Avatar
    DocTom

    Wow! What a thread. Let me start with a mention that destructive criticism is not restricted to fiction.

    When I was in grad school, I shared a house with an assistant professor who was working on sedimentary deposits in Death Valley. He was trying to create a model for arid environments which could be applied to rocks from the Triassic Period of the east coast (roughly 200 – 250 million years ago). A real perfectionist, he sweated over his work until about a year prior to a tenure decision. Then he put together a beautiful report, extensively illustrated, showing the result of 100 year downpours in death valley (an excellent example of careful observational science). He knew his tenure decision would depend on this being accepted by an international class journal. I remember walking into his office the day he got the response from the journal’s editor. I could immediately tell things had not gone well. He handed me the letter — it was a rejection — along with the reviewer’s comments: “As a mathematical model for arid storm deposition, this paper fails totally.” Considering the only mathematics in the report was the pagination, I wasn’t surprised. Long story short, he was denied tenure at the university, and went on to a long and highly successful career at the US Geological Survey studying arid depositional basins around the world. Talk about not paying attention to what you are reading!

    As far as scientific theory is concerned. I remember in high school math we were doing proofs ( ). We were told we had to prove the theorem for x = 1, 2, 3, 4,……k. My response was “What the hell is k!” Turns out k basically means infinity. In other words, there are absolutely no cases in which the theorem does not hold. So you can test a theorem a million times, but that still does not turn it into a Law, because only 1 single, solitary failure means we reject the theorem. That’s science. That’s why the “Theory of Evolution” is still a theory. It’s been tested a million times (Covid becomes Omicron 1, becomes Omicron 5.1.234 whatever, etc.), but we still can’t call it a Law. On the other hand, as Mr. Spock said, “If I release a hammer on a positive gravity world, I don’t need to watch it to know it will fall.” That’s a Law.

    Finally, to get back to Carl’s great post, destructive criticism. I confess that some of my earliest comments on Book Country and Bookus may have been a bit harsh. I once told someone whose main character walked twenty miles to and from college each day that, as a hiker I could say 2 miles an hour was a good pace, so their description was dumb. I learned very quickly how fragile writer’s egos were. But at the same time I found that there are many critics out there who almost justify their existence by their super background. They don’t evaluate based on what they read, but on what they “know”. And yes, I did place quotes around know for a purpose. I had an editor introduce themselves by giving me a listing of their degrees and the prestigious universities which had conferred them. I assume I was supposed to immediately salaam to their email, flagellating myself to atone for the multiple sins they exposed in my ms. Others, well-meaning, were trying to show me how to shoehorn my story into the cookie cutter world of what’s gets published. They may have been right, but the decision you need to make is whether you want to write what will immediately sell, or what you want to write. One big problem we have now a days is that we’ve become so sophisticated in understanding what the public wants, that any divergence from it is problematic. Try listening to some pop music for a while. Can you tell the difference? A lot sounds the same to me. That, unfortunately, is what a lot of the MFA’s out there are doing to writing.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. GD Deckard Avatar

      Yes!
      They don’t evaluate based on what they read, but on what they “know”.
      One sign that you can ignore a review is the reviewer using what you wrote solely to get people to read what they are expounding because, well, without you, nobody would read them.

      Liked by 3 people

  11. Carl E. Reed Avatar

    Thank for the extended, thought-provoking post, Tom. And for sharing some pertinent incidents from your own life.

    Re: “One big problem we have nowadays is that we’ve become so sophisticated in understanding what the public wants that any divergence from it is problematic.”

    Indeed! Hence my reviewer’s criticism that an intelligent, bookish, deeply disturbed teenage sociopath in one of my tales should allow himself to be influenced by TikTok videos. Why? The logic of this particular criticism was ironclad, as far as he was concerned: (1) He was tired of reading about bookish writers who wrote about other bookish writers, and (2) TikTok videos are currently popular with young people, so . . .

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Sandy Randall Avatar

      After reading all the sci-fi discussion, I ran across an article, in my daily news feed, about Fairy Circles in Namibia. It was an excellent example of how science is discussed. I was laughing because the discussion sounded so much like our time travel/multiverse discussions … Fairy circles … hmmm the whole article makes me want to jump in as the fantasy writer and say ” Hey guys … I have a theory …” and then run away leaving them all to scratch their heads … Yeah GD I know … causing trouble again…

      Here’s the link to the article if your interested …
      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/in-hunt-to-solve-fairy-circle-mystery-one-suspect-is-dismissed/ar-AA13Bnf2?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=9b69dd9d34824d0da2693f0eebdc1715

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Sue Ranscht Avatar

        The article makes me wonder how the termite theory gained any credibility if direct research established there were no termites. Was the guy just guessing?

        Liked by 2 people

        1. Sandy Randall Avatar

          It made me think of some of the comments about reviewing work and how off base a reviewer can be simply from making a judgement from skimming the data.
          I’m thinking the researcher assumed his credentials would allow him to make a “credible educated” guess and everyone would take him at face value… it works in politics but not with other scientists?

          Liked by 2 people

          1. DocTom Avatar
            DocTom

            Well folks, this is, again, a case of how science “works.” In the simplest case you start with a question based on an observation. Let’s say you see a dead squirrel in the middle of the road. At first, there are only three clear facts: it’s a squirrel, it’s in the road, and it’s dead. A number of “scientists” examine the poor deceased rodent, and each offers a different suggestion (hypothesis) for what happened. One suggest poor Nutkin had a heart attack as it was running across the street. A second suggests it fell out of a tree and broke its neck. A third suggest it was killed by a neighborhood cat which scooted away on hearing an approaching car. A fourth suggests it was abducted by aliens who tossed it out of their flying saucer when it wouldn’t take them to its leader. While a fifth says, “Awh hell, it was just squished by a car!”

            Sadly, (almost) all of these are valid hypotheses until a study is conducted. Now you might say the only hypothesis worth considering is vehicular squirrelcide since, a) Nutkin is in the road, and b) Nutkin is decidedly 2-dimensional. But, unfortunately, if you start with any of the first four hypotheses, you would end up with the same result if the corpus delecti was lying in the street only to be run over post mortem. The sad fact is that any ecological question (like the fairy circles) usually takes long term study to achieve a clear result (for instance, a study of wolf population inbreeding on Isle Royal in Lake Superior has been going on for more than 50 years). In our hypothetical example you would probably need to set up cameras to record the little furry critters crossing roads to determine the greatest cause of squirrelcide.

            Last comment. The fact that the media “proclaims” the mystery solved is more a factor of ratings chase than science. In our above example, 6 O’clock Action News started off with the headline: “Did space aliens kill our squirrel?”, followed by “Video at 11!”

            Liked by 4 people

            1. GD Deckard Avatar

              Tom 🙂
              Remember the scene in Catch 22 where Yossarian, who naturally ran a temperature of 101, checked himself into the hospital because he wanted a rest and the doctors all diagnosed him differently, depending on their own specialty? 😂

              Liked by 2 people

              1. DocTom Avatar
                DocTom

                Vaguely, but it sounds so right. If I had a dime for every time I was told that a colleague was telling students that you weren’t a scientist unless you were studying their specialty, I wouldn’t consider Powerball since I’d already be a billionaire. They all knew one thing and it was, of course, the most important thing in the universe!

                Liked by 1 person

  12. mimispeike Avatar
    mimispeike

    All this x=y-z stuff is fun to read, and adds to the richness of a story, but my thumb up or down depends always on characterization.

    If you can get me to believe that a character believes something, I’m on board with it, whatever it may be.

    Liked by 4 people

  13. Perry Palin Avatar
    Perry Palin

    In reading Carl’s post I thought of my elder son’s school sports. As a sophomore in high school he was a lineman on the football team. He finished the season, and then said he was done with football; he couldn’t stand the coaches yelling at the players to do violence to one another in practice and to the opponents in games. He joined the cross-country ski team. The cross-country coaches in the inner-city school had over a hundred athletes at every practice. No one was ever cut from the team. Only a few would represent the school in competition, but the whole gang would be bussed to every meet. It was a supportive, encouraging environment among all of the athletes, from the stars down to those who only watched from the sidelines. He had similar positive experiences rowing in an eight in crew on a club team after high school, and also at UW-Madison.

    I am one of them there amateur writers of which Carl writes. I’ve had some things published in journals and magazines, and two small short story collections. I have an unpublished novel. I have a small, appreciative audience. I’ve never had a truly bad review, though some people have commented on an unclear concept or two. One reader told me that he liked my first book better than my second. Okay, that says something about him as well as about my writing.

    When I’ve had negative comments, I try to mine them for the value they offer. When a reviewer tried to raise the “intellect” of my language, I didn’t change the language, but I added something to help the reader remember that my narrator is ten years old.

    I know a few people who make a good living from their writing, and I’ve been to readings by a few more. They have not viewed writing as a zero-sum game. They have been supportive and encouraging of those of us on the sidelines, hoping to get into the game, and for that I am grateful.

    Liked by 5 people

  14. Carl E. Reed Avatar

    Thanks for chiming in, Perry! Always good to hear from you.

    Liked by 3 people

  15. GD Deckard Avatar

    What Carl said, Perry 👍

    Liked by 2 people

  16. GD Deckard Avatar

    And now for something completely different.

    In war, you come to accept reality. If our critics are right, and we care about our writing, pain does not stop us from changing. We begin to write more like we wish we could. A process begins beneath awareness that leads to better results. To fact check this, pull up your ealiest writing that you have and read it. Obviously, you have improved.

    There is a reality to good writing. But there is no one “good way to do it” or good writing would all read the same.

    Creativity is an overwhelming, unseen, and surprising process. Our story comes to life within, first, and only after struggling to get out can the writer, like any good mother, clean up the brat.

    In critiques, you come to accept reality. Critics may strike like enemies but if they are right a process begins beneath our awareness that leads to better results. And so it goes.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Carl E. Reed Avatar

      No disagreement here, GD. Though the subject of this blog post was the destructive critique. A valid critique that hurts the writer’s feelings is just… um… a critique. (Heh!)

      Liked by 3 people

  17. Carl E. Reed Avatar

    Suggestion: If your reply gets narrowed to a 2-3 word column, delete it and please repost under COMMENT addressed to whomever. Much easier to read, folks! And far less scrolling to do.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. GD Deckard Avatar

      Aw, Carl. Here I was waiting to see if it would be Sandy or Sue to give us our first tall column of syllables.

      Liked by 3 people

        1. Sandy Randall Avatar

          I second this sentiment…

          Liked by 2 people

      1. Sandy Randall Avatar

        What’s funny… I find that annoying as well but… we seem to have “forked” line conversations… Hey! 💡 maybe that’s what happens to divergent timelines!!! My theory of “everything is relatable” at work… ok back to my naughty corner…

        Liked by 3 people

      2. Sue Ranscht Avatar

        I was headed in that direction even though such narrow columns annoy me as well, lol.

        Liked by 3 people

  18. Carl E. Reed Avatar

    @Sue: I’ve long entertained a similar notion. That deja vu is the momentary experienced awareness of the multiverse. And vuja de? Awareness that you have slipped into the WRONG universe!

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Sue Ranscht Avatar

      I would think slipping into a different universe would be more a whole new life experience rather than a momentary vague awareness, but anything is possible, right? I love your vuja de evidence, but wouldn’t it be illuminating to explore a universe so different from our own? More an unplanned side trip than the wrong destination, lol.

      Liked by 2 people

  19. Carl E. Reed Avatar

    Well, this was just free-wheeling speculation. A story idea: Given an infinite multiverse, perhaps one reality is constantly shifting into another with merely a .00000001 percent difference between them–initially. Though with every passing micro-second…

    Liked by 3 people

    1. GD Deckard Avatar

      Yes! And for humor (or horror, or satire,) write it such that 8 billion people are constantly shifting reality, thus creating a world that constantly changes but is always full of humor and horror and satirical insights (emphasize one.) Oh, wait… that’s non-fiction. Well, it could become a reality show.

      Liked by 3 people

  20. GD Deckard Avatar

    “The consequences of the Big Bang should have flowed like rows of falling dominoes; the physical universe should be predictable. But it ain’t, because intelligent life forms are messing with it.”
    – Ambrose Phoenix, The Phoenix Diary

    He pointed at a large rock next to the street. “That granite boulder was half buried in my yard when I moved in. It was probably deposited there by a receding glacier at the end of the last ice age. I dug it up and rolled it to the street. No future geologist will know that rock is where it is now because somebody bet me I was too old to move it.”
    – The librarian, The Phoenix Diary

    Given that each of us changes reality with every decision we make, and that we cannot change the past, I see the multiverses as slipping behind us like ripples in a mountain stream. Perhaps life, like matter and energy, is fundamental to the way the universe works and living beings steer the changes we call moving forward in time?

    Liked by 4 people

    1. Carl E. Reed Avatar

      I think of that parable told by Kurt Vonnegut in one of his novels (rough paraphrase from memory): “Two yeast debated the meaning of life while eating sugar, excreting and eventually suffocating in their own shit. They never realized that all the while they were making champagne.”

      We are sentient–temporarily–because the universe apparently needed a way to know itself. To what end? Impossible to say. Ask the DNA . . .

      Liked by 4 people

      1. GD Deckard Avatar

        I love Vonnegut. My favorite quote is a “Bokononism” from Cat’s Cradle: (also from memory)

        Tiger got to hunt,
        Bird got to fly,
        Man got to sit and wonder “Why, why, why?”

        Tiger got to sleep.
        Bird got to land,
        Man got to tell himself, “I understand.”

        Liked by 4 people

      2. GD Deckard Avatar

        Oh wow, Carl. You may have answered your own question 🙂 Just substitute a colon for a period.

        The universe apparently needed a way to know itself: To what end?

        Liked by 4 people

    2. Sandy Randall Avatar

      Both passages from the Phoenix Diary are memorable. Ok so it’s my actual current read (instead of listening to an audible book) and those bits may still be fresh in my brain, but I’m enjoying the story. It’s my “guilty” reading pleasure when the house is quiet and everyone but me is asleep. Which means I don’t get far before I fall asleep myself.
      There is a point here. GD you are subliminally fueling my multiverse research … “stoking the fire” perhaps.
      The problem with falling asleep while I read … my mind makes up stuff to continue the story while I sleep. Which means a bit of re reading to make sure what is truly in the story and not the stuff I make up!🤣
      It’s been like that for since I was a kid. Which probably explains my need to write …. hmm
      I also agree with you that I think Carl has found the key to the universe … now to answer the age old question (Over used by juvenile humans) Why?

      Liked by 3 people

      1. GD Deckard Avatar

        Sandy,
        The problem with falling asleep while reading is that you sometimes wake up in the story. You know that moment, upon awakening, when you orient yourself to your environment? That’s really all you know, for certainty, that you are orienting to your world. It could be a new world, but you’re now convinced it’s the one you’ve always known. No memory contradicts this. Be careful what you read.

        Liked by 2 people

        1. Sandy Randall Avatar

          So true GD! Books, movies, all sorts of input can do this. I’ve always been a vivid dreamer.

          Liked by 2 people

          1. GD Deckard Avatar

            I enjoy vivid dreaming. I’ve considered a story about a person who walks from one vivid dream into another. Every day he wakes up to a totally different experience. He learns this is happening only because he’s in the habit of writing about his day in his diary before going to sleep, and the diary always comes with him. (Title it “The Dream Diary” ?)
            Could be a fun story to do.

            Liked by 2 people

            1. Sandy Randall Avatar

              Sounds like you could collaborate on an episode of the Sandman with Neil Gaiman …

              Liked by 1 person

      2. Sue Ranscht Avatar

        Could you be comfortable with the idea that there is no why? There just is. I find it freeing. Even if there is a reason, does it matter? Are you going to live differently if you find out your life isn’t what someone else had in mind?

        Liked by 1 person

        1. Sandy Randall Avatar

          I’m totally comfortable with the possibility there is no “why?” Because that is simply one of many possibilities. I consider death the answer to all questions. Either you pass on to something else or you simply are reabsorbed into what is. Both are answers and you still find out when you die, though perhaps in the second case you are necessarily aware that you now know. lol
          Considering death is something we all get to do, regardless of what we do in life, then those who have gone before have achieved the answer to what is beyond death. In that vein … why hurry. Live life while you’re here, death comes soon enough …

          Liked by 2 people

  21. mimispeike Avatar
    mimispeike

    On Book Country, in his first review of Sly, JoeTV was caustic, belittling, and explained nothing of his odd take on the piece. For instance, he never explained why he’d said, “You are no Jane Austin”.

    I don’t think anyone who reads Sly can possibly think I’m trying to be Jane Austin. I believe he looked at my somewhat mannered style, combined with my own brand of sly wit, and came to that conclusion.

    I took him seriously, because he is a reputable, successful writer for TV and movies. (I found this out by googling him.)

    Nevertheless, his review, I laughed about it, it was so off the wall. I did read and reread it, looking for comments I could take to heart.

    Mine a bad review for useful information, and let it go at that. Don’t get bent out of shape over it.

    Liked by 5 people

    1. Carl E. Reed Avatar

      I remember JoeTV! He was a character for sure, Mimi.

      PS. I can’t believe anyone reading even half a page of your Sly! material would think you were attempting to channel Jane Austen!

      Liked by 4 people

      1. mimispeike Avatar
        mimispeike

        He meant, of course, that my wit doesn’t rise to the level of hers. Well, I would dispute that. My humor is of an entirely different nature.

        The JoeTV on Book Country once had a page on Wikipedia, that is gone. I see a JoeTV television station in Seattle, and a Joe_TV video game creator, who isn’t the same guy. This one is a lot younger. He looks, at most, thirty.

        My JoeTV was, I believe, around fifty. Which would make him now sixty+.

        Liked by 4 people

  22. GD Deckard Avatar

    Michiko Kakutani, the New York Time’s book reviewer who in 1997 reviewed Norman Mailer’s autobiography of Jesus Christ, won the Pulitzer Prize for Criticism in 1998. Now, while most of the planet has heard of Christ, and a few know of Mailer, practically no one can tell you Kakutani’s gender.
    Reviewers are forgotten.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Sandy Randall Avatar

      Understanding a tiny bit about Japanese naming conventions … I will say Michiko Kakutani is female … plus I worked with a gal name Michiko.
      I will have to read Mailers autobiography of Christ. I found Anne Rice’s version of Christ the Lord way better than anything the Bible put out …
      EDIT:
      Religion is a curiosity for me … I subscribe to none.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. GD Deckard Avatar

        Religion is so intensely personal that I suspect most have their own. I’m a Frisbeetarian. We believe that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof where nobody can get it.

        Liked by 3 people

        1. Sandy Randall Avatar

          One of my favorite writers, Kevin Hearne, has a character named Oberon. He’s an Irish Wolfhound and is the companion to Hearne’s Iron Druid. Oberon creates his own religion called “Poochism.”
          Hearne finally wrote “The Dead Flea Scrolls: A Sirius Prophecy of Poochism” and attached to one of his previous novels. He reads portions of it at his book signings. They’re hilarious.
          I think Oberon would totally buy into the concepts of Frisbeetarianism. Isn’t it the thumbless dog who ultimately would have a hard time climbing to the roof? That is, after all, where the damned squirrels and cats go to hide!

          Liked by 3 people

        2. mimispeike Avatar
          mimispeike

          Mike Pence says Americans don’t have a right to freedom from religion.

          “The radical left believes that the freedom of religion is the freedom from religion,” says Pence.

          He says religions still have the right to impose their beliefs on you.

          We need to get rid of all these moron creeps.

          Liked by 6 people

          1. Sandy Randall Avatar

            I love it! My husband is a Pastafarian as well. I’m leaning toward Poochism, but I think it’s because I was a dog in a former life… Woof

            Liked by 2 people

          2. Sue Ranscht Avatar

            Amen, Mimi! lol

            Like

        3. GD Deckard Avatar

          Mimi,
          If you haven’t, read Eric Hoffer’s The True Believer. Written in 1951, the book remains relevant.
          A true individual, Eric Hoffer had no formal education and worked for decades as a migrant worker and longshoreman in California. Yet he became, on his own, a social philosopher and author of several books, received two Honorary Doctorates, became a UC adjunct professor, endowed the Hoffer Laconic Essay Prize for students, faculty, and staff at the University of California, Berkeley, and was even awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
          Not bad for a kid from The Bronx.
          I think of him whenever I hear someone whine that they have no opportunities.

          Oh, and to your point,
          “To know a person’s religion, we need not listen to his profession of faith but must find his brand of intolerance.”
          – Eric Hoffer

          Liked by 5 people

          1. mimispeike Avatar
            mimispeike

            I read it, fifty+ years ago. I should read it again.

            Liked by 3 people

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