WRITERS CO-OP: A WRITER COMMUNITY FOR YOU.

GD Deckard

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71 comments on Open Comment Week

Open Comment Week

Use the comments section to discuss anything related to the writing life.

I’ll begin. Writers often present their characters in terms of who they think people are. I deny being a conspiracy nut. But the following two things are true.

  1. Computer Mediated Communication makes people angry.
    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5281/e72996f922f8f572ca8d8224727f13a3e680.pdf https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/friction/201807/why-social-media-makes-us-angrier-and-more-extreme
  2. Stats from Wikipedia showing that the incidence of mass shootings spiked 8-fold after Facebook launched in 2004.
    (91 mass shootings between 1920-2003 = 91/83 years = 1.09 per year.
    146 mass shootings between 2004-2020 = 146/17 years = 8.58 per year)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

Two things being correlated does not prove cause and effect. The sun rose this morning and I had French toast for breakfast. No cause & effect there. But the question is valid.

As a writer, do you think social media has changed us, or do you think we have changed, and social media merely reflects who we are?

Posted by:

GD Deckard

Severely beaten as a child by a WWII hero and combat-induced-PTSD stepfather, the author, as a teen, faced the old man down with a shotgun and earned his blessing to join the military at the time Americans were learning about a country called Vietnam. The “lazy, no good son-of-a-bitch” opted out of combat and hard labor by becoming an Air Force medic, stamping out suffering and misery on Freedom’s Frontier at Clark Airbase in S.E. Asia and earning some kind of medal pinned on him personally by then Secretary of the Air Force, Harold Brown, for “Saving lives, etc.” There followed a summer in Europe ending in the first of happy marriages. Then graduation with University Honors, kids worth dying for and a career in business. Life is good. Author, The Phoenix Diary, Penguin, 2015. https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-phoenix-diary-g-d-deckard/1122175645 Founding Member, Writers Co-op. https://WritersCo-op.com Co-Editor, The Rabbit Hole anthologies. https://www.amazon.com/Rabbit-Hole-Weird-Stories/dp/1691225355/ref=sr_1_1 Founder, SciFi Lampoon Magazine. http://scifilampoon.com/ Contributing Editor, A Celebration of Storytelling https://www.amazon.com/Celebration-Storytelling-GD-Deckard/dp/1951716167 Current WIP: Code Blue and Little Deaths, stories from Clark during the Vietnam War. Recipient of the Psi Young award for Creative Biography.

71 responses to “Open Comment Week”

  1. Sandy Randall Avatar
    Sandy Randall

    Honestly, I find social media exhausting. I like seeing posts from friends and family, like vacation photos etc, but diatribes on politics or other social issues … I lose interest pretty quick. It’s like amateur hour at the news bureau. Even news media exhausts me.
    So to answer the question? I don’t think social media has changed us, I think it has simply spotlighted our worst foibles as humanity!
    Sorry, such negativity from early on Sunday!
    To be fair, I just had some person all annoyed with me because I failed to respond to a personal message on Instagram. I do not use Instagram for personal messages. Plus I typically ignore random people I don’t know trying to hit me up on social media. I’m not young and cute and looking for a relationship FFS! And even if I was, certainly not going to look at social media for that!.
    Exhausting.
    The worst in humanity.
    Highlights the desperate.
    Those are my (very negative) thoughts about social media.
    I really do need to find the exit ramp for that crazy highway, but I admit there are still people I do like to be connected to via that medium.
    I have already ditched Twitter. That felt good. Maybe this is the year? We’ll see.

    Liked by 4 people

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    1. Sue Ranscht Avatar
      Sue Ranscht

      I deactivated my Twitter account the moment I read that the sale went through. I haven’t paid any attention to Facebook in almost two and a half years. I visited Instagram last week to change the photos that show for IG on my website, but other than that, it’s been about a year since I last looked at it. What might all that neglect mean if I get the chance to be published traditionally?

      I think I’ll hire a social media marketer, lol.

      Liked by 4 people

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      1. Sandy Randall Avatar
        Sandy Randall

        I did the same with Twitter. I hardly used it anyway and decided the nonsense that was beginning to ramp up after it was sold was enough to make me ditch it. As for FB and IG … It still connects me to a few people that I like to keep track of, however even that is getting old for me. I have my websites, I’ve almost convinced myself it is enough.

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    2. GD Deckard Avatar
      GD Deckard

      “amateur hour at the news bureau” Yes!
      Unfortunately for us, “news” shows often use social media as content.

      I used Facebook to meet other people in the writing life. At first, it felt like sitting in a sidewalk cafe on Main Street Earth. But after a while, and connecting with 3,000 “friends,” I found myself unable to keep the dia tribes out of my feed. So, a couple years ago, I left FB for good. Interestingly, FB refuses to acknowledge my departure. I think they keep accounts open to pad the numbers they feed their advertisers.

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  2. Sue Ranscht Avatar
    Sue Ranscht

    I want to say, of course we have changed. And I think as social animals, humans have evolved to encompass previously uncontemplated concepts like freedom and equality between races and genders — albeit, imperfectly throughout humanity. But recorded history shows overall forward movement in that direction.

    On the other hand, we — especially Americans — have shown a proclivity for violent anarchy wherever the rule of law has not yet taken hold. Especially — but not exclusively — among a minority of young men. The “wild west” is a prominent example. Billy the Kid, for example, reportedly killed between 9 and 21 people before he was murdered. Regular people finally insisted strongly enough that there be laws and enforcement so they and their families could be safe and prosperous.

    Enter social media. I remember references to it being like the Wild West, where people were free to do and say whatever they wanted to because there were no rules. Like-minded people found each other in chat rooms, not only were there no taboos, but anyone could pretend to be anything they could imagine. Lies and normally unspoken thoughts found an unquestioning and eager audience. Anonymity encouraged boldness.

    So, yes, I think social media has enhanced the worst of human nature among those susceptible to such an influence. But I believe that will always be a minority of humanity because most people seem to prefer living in peace, undisturbed by severely negative influences. Can those influences be countered by writers who promote respectful societies? Should we insist on rules that tamp down the easy spread of violent anarchy?

    Can we afford not to?

    Liked by 5 people

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    1. GD Deckard Avatar
      GD Deckard

      I think basic human behavior has not changed. Luckily, though, our societies do evolve. Else, we’d have to be armed to have a drink today in Dodge City, Kansas.

      Liked by 2 people

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      1. Sandy Randall Avatar
        Sandy Randall

        “Else, we’d have to be armed to have a drink today in Dodge City, Kansas.” Hmmm not sure but you might have to be…

        Liked by 3 people

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    2. John Correll Avatar
      John Correll

      The Wild West mythos; a very astute observation, Sue. Even Europe was fascinated by the old west. I’m thinking of the spaghetti westerns.

      The rest of the world sees America as not only a place of democratic freedom but social and moral freedom as well. My German grandfather, who never visited America, always told me that the US was a land of gangsters, but that didn’t stop him from envying his cousin in Chicago.

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      1. Sue Ranscht Avatar
        Sue Ranscht

        I’m not sure how accurately spaghetti westerns reflected the history of America’s Wild West, lol.

        Liked by 4 people

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  3. John Correll Avatar
    John Correll

    A very poignant question GD, which deserves far more analysis than I can muster right now, but let me fire off my first thoughts before I lose them to the constant digital chatter that invades every waking second.

    The Question:

    Do you think social media has changed us, or do you think we have changed, and social media merely reflects who we are?

    My Reflections:

    A Brief (and very rough, not at all academic) History of Communication.

    From the beginning, communication set sociality alight to coordinate, justify, and continue wars. Okay, all the chatter helped with a heap of other things like collecting money (resources), possibly another part of the issue.

    Violent Comms in Review:
    – Writing and the expansion of ancient empires and slavery, Babylon and Egypt.
    – Printing and the explosion of religious wars. The Hundred Years war. Thirty Years War, etc.
    – Newspapers (Yellow journalism) and colonial expansion (especially Africa in the latter half of the 1800s).
    – Film, propaganda, and the rise of fascist dictatorship and World War.

    Communication facilitates the expansion and direction of violence. This seems a persistent factor in human history, with every new media pushing forward new horrors in meanness.

    Follow the Money:
    The current situation, I would wager, is less Social Media and more a rise in the old antagonism between the haves and have-nots. This has also been a recurring theme in history:

    – Christians against the Romans
    – Peasants against Nobility
    – The 1848 revolution
    – The French Communard
    – The Russian Revolution
    – The digital elite against those other ignorant dullards who don’t even understand simple recursive switch case statements.

    Wealth is like fly paper, a socio-economic constant that sticks to itself at every opportunity. This seems to really bother people who don’t have any fly paper.

    But in the US, another factor contributes to accelerating rampant violence (along with a mushrooming population); the fact that guns grow on trees, free for every maniac to grab.

    Liked by 5 people

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    1. GD Deckard Avatar
      GD Deckard

      History does of course, prove you right, John. And I suspect social media simply reflects who we are.

      Perhaps we still exist because it takes all kinds if anyone at all is to survive extinction events. That’d be a great anthology: stories of groups who survive only because they are capable of behaving in ways unacceptable to modern us. Like the cannibals of Donnor Pass.
      We could call the book, “True Diversity.”

      Liked by 3 people

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  4. Sandy Randall Avatar
    Sandy Randall

    Another thought and more related to actually writing…
    I think social media has fed into the “instant gratification need”
    Language has become truncated (Snapchat and Twitter..) soundbites that allude to deeper meaning but what is that meaning? Anyone’s guess. Headline’s are clickbait (a word or compound word invented in this century?) attracting you (collective you) to see what’s behind the headline… typically drivel or something completely different than headline and filled with advertising and more bait… a veritable mine field for fat fingers on a touch screen!
    So in my very wordy observation… yes I do think social media has changed us, or at the very least hastened our literary demise from actual works of literature to sentences full of acronyms!
    OMG IFLT! FFS! 😂 and let’s not forget modern hieroglyphs!
    I would say maybe I’m showing my age, but I have hope. My oldest son (who is 37) is very much my grammar and language police. He has been since he was in high school. If I have a period or comma out of place in a text message… he will let me know…
    At the moment he hasn’t joined Writer’s Co-op (though I have invited him) but when he does … I’m sure my posts will improve 😂

    HA! I had to edit this … Thanks Son … and he hasn’t even read it!

    Liked by 4 people

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    1. Sue Ranscht Avatar
      Sue Ranscht

      I don’t believe an “instant gratification need” even existed before social media.

      Liked by 2 people

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      1. Sandy Randall Avatar
        Sandy Randall

        I agree, and honestly almost changed that to instant gratification want, although as I think about it, I think there were precursors if you consider credit, “Buy now, Pay later”

        Liked by 4 people

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  5. Sue Ranscht Avatar
    Sue Ranscht

    According to 2022 Pew Research, about 45% of American households own at least one firearm. (https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/percentage-of-households-in-the-united-states-owning-a-firearm/). So more than half the households own no firearms. Even that doesn’t reflect the much smaller percentage of Americans who actually commit gun violence. And it isn’t that guns have become easy/easier to obtain since 2004. They’ve always been legal to purchase and too easy to steal.

    So the difference between the Twentieth and Twenty-first Century levels of gun violence in America is more likely due to how thoroughly we are inundated by the news of such violence (and how inured many of us have become to it), than it is due to guns “growing on trees”. (Which is patently ridiculous anyway. Everyone knows guns are most often found in glove boxes and under pillows.) For those who might be inclined to commit such acts due to mental illness or pure orneriness, social media might just provide the scent of normalization such a person needs to take action.

    While “buy now, pay later” did begin earlier than the internet, it cost something — interest. Even before department store charga-plates and later, credit cards, buying a house was a buy-now-pay-later proposition that involved a lot of paperwork and effort. But I don’t believe or recall that those things had a major impact on society’s willingness to be patient. Not like social media has. It seems to me that social media’s free and pervasive instant gratification affects every aspect of our lives — what we see, hear, know, eat. watch, share — and has driven a severe decline in individuals’ willingness to be patient. Which feeds every aspect of the worst in human nature, and certainly influences the polarization we are currently suffering.

    Yet I still believe that most people in our society have risen above the worst of human nature — if only by practicing the discipline to resist it. It’s those who resist intellectual and societal growth who remain victims of their worst inclinations.

    Liked by 3 people

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    1. Sandy Randall Avatar
      Sandy Randall

      Instant gratification.
      I of course googled this concept. It led me to this article:
      https://positivepsychology.com/instant-gratification/
      It’s ultimately a self help article, but it does have some interesting points regarding Instant Gratification. I feel like social media promotes Instant gratification, much like advertising and marketing promote sales of products, whether beneficial or detrimental. The same with ideas.
      Which brings me to a paradox of sorts … Our ever present quest to get our writing in the hands of readers!
      I guess that means even simple seeming Instant Gratification, is not a simple process … Ok I’m gonna stop here. My mind is starting to tell me I’m walking in circles. To be fair I have been up since 330am PT and it’s now 825pm. Yeah past my bedtime and definitely past my brains capacity to think coherently.
      On the upside … I think I have a good peek at Darren. Just need to revise a bit before I can submit. Plus I’m not happy with the picture I’ve painted for it … Back to the drawing board for me! lol

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      1. Sue Ranscht Avatar
        Sue Ranscht

        I agree that social media promotes instant gratification — to the extent that we now feel entitled to it. Of course, there are generations that have grown up knowing no other way. Is patience going to become an unvalued quality? Or will there eventually be a backlash and a grass roots movement to elevate patience to the virtue it truly can be?

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    2. GD Deckard Avatar
      GD Deckard

      Sue,
      “social media might just provide the scent of normalization”
      What a marvelous insight! Now I wonder, is it possible that someday we might better understand each other because so many are spending so much time gossiping? Not saying we’ll like each other, but understanding is a start.

      “social media’s free and pervasive instant gratification affects every aspect of our lives — what we see, hear, know, eat. watch, share”
      And, it tracks every aspect of our lives — what we see, hear, know, eat, watch, share, etc. Social media is not free. We are the product.

      Liked by 2 people

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      1. Sue Ranscht Avatar
        Sue Ranscht

        “And, it tracks every aspect of our lives — what we see, hear, know, eat, watch, share, etc. Social media is not free. We are the product.”

        You’re right, GD, we are the product. But until fairly recently, we were not aware how much of ourselves was being taken from us. We weren’t working to pay for social media; we were doing what we wanted to do to please ourselves. Meanwhile, we were being unwittingly robbed by social media tech companies who fenced our information to advertisers. Now we have to work to stop them from robbing us.

        I never “accept all cookies”. That means I have to stop what I’m doing so I can delve into a site’s cookie policy — which is often deliberately unclear: does that symbol next to “Third Party Cookies” mean they are currently on or will they be on if I switch the toggle? Why not buttons that say “Accept” or “Reject”?

        Chrome offers the chance to set the browser to reject third party cookies, but some sites won’t let you use their site unless you set your browser to accept them. Those are the sites I close immediately.

        And then there’s Starbucks. When you visit the page where you can turn off all but the “Necessary cookies”, you then click “Save my choices”. The next time you use the app, you’ll probably think you don’t need to address their cookie policy again because you told the app to save your choices. But here’s the deal, every visit you check your privacy settings, you will see that all the cookies are again in use, so you have to make the choice to reject the ones you don’t want again. And again. And again.

        Of course businesses make it easiest for visitors to accept all cookies. It doesn’t require any investment of time or effort, so in that sense, it feels free and promotes instant gratification. What else should we expect if the business is interested in profit over anything else?

        I’ve learned to watch for the businesses that make rejecting cookies easy to do. They earn my good will.

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        1. Sandy Randall Avatar
          Sandy Randall

          As I have come to learn in the last few months of working for Starbucks … they are technologically challenged. Some of the things we use for work make no sense and are difficult to use. On the other hand they have some work procedures that make so much sense, and actually make the job easier. I get the feeling (as I do with all large corporations) that many departments are attempting to coordinate and make a simple product work in a very complex manner.
          three round wheels and one square wheel on the same cart often comes to mind…

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          1. Sue Ranscht Avatar
            Sue Ranscht

            Hahaha! That doesn’t surprise me. My son worked for them for five years — it was an uneven, often frustrating experience.

            Liked by 2 people

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            1. Sandy Randall Avatar
              Sandy Randall

              It could very well be but since it’s my retirement gig I don’t get too wrapped up in it. I do my four hours … go home… walk my dogs and spend the rest of my day writing, painting or breaking my websites 😂
              Plus it always smells good there. I get up early and smell the coffee!

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        2. GD Deckard Avatar
          GD Deckard

          Sue,
          I recommend Ad Blocker. Not perfect, but it blocks a ton of ads.
          Some sites, especially newspapers, block you if you’re using it. But I can usually log back in & do a quick copy and paste the article into Notebook to read at my leisure.

          It’s perverse fun to use Ad Blocker manually. Slow, deliberately erasing ads that way, but quite satisfying.

          Liked by 2 people

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          1. Sue Ranscht Avatar
            Sue Ranscht

            GD, I agree AdBlocker is a decent tool. I’ve used it for years on my Chrome browser desktop, and recently added it to my Safari browser desktop. (I find Safari is better for streaming on my Mac.) There are some news sites that insist I allow ads if I want to read an article, and if it matters enough to me, I’ll pause AdBlock for that article. Then I zoom in on the article so all the ads are off screen. But my cookie preferences are always limited to essential cookies that are always active, so if I were to look at any ads, they shouldn’t be targeted.

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  6. GD Deckard Avatar
    GD Deckard

    The actual effect of computer mediated communication is irritation caused by misunderstandings that, very humanly, lead to suspicion. The other people on social media come from world-wide diverse backgrounds. A hodgepodge that by itself easily leads to disagreement.

    We learned to understand language by speaking face to face. Very little of the totality communicated face to face is conveyed over computer chat.

    We forget the computer filters out most of one’s meaning, and we can end up judging comments differently than we might if we saw the twinkle in the other’s eye.

    Writers deal with the same problem, of course. Words are a poor medium for communicating the range of human experience. That’s probably why we honor those that do it well.

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  7. mimispeike Avatar
    mimispeike

    Words are a poor medium for communicating the range of human experience. – I disagree with that completely.

    I am on Facebook, that’s it. And I listen to commentary on YouTube. That Christo Avalis puts up incendiary headlines and fails to deliver on them. I now avoid him. I like Beau of the Fifth Column, or whatever he calls himself. He has his head on straight.

    I listen to the msnbc folks I’ve missed the night before. The major part of my YouTube time is spent with John Prine, Mark Knopfler, Arlo Guthrie, Neil Young, David Crosby …. and a lot of the gardening videos.

    If this is instant gratification, I’ll all for it. What’s the beef with instant gratification?

    Liked by 3 people

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    1. Sandy Randall Avatar
      Sandy Randall

      I love Beau … I actually spend $5 a month to support his Patreon. I agree Mimi. He speaks sense and sensibly.

      You bring up a good point… What’s wrong with it? I think what’s wrong is over indulging. If you want everything instantly, I feel you miss out on the depth of some experiences.
      Case in point … I used to date a guy that loved hiking. I love to hike. I do not love walking a trail as fast as my short legs will take me just to get to the end of the trail as fast as I can. That was the difference between him and I. I hiked to enjoy the view, the scenery etc. He hiked to get to the end and declare an accomplishment.
      Neither is wrong, just depends on your goals I suppose.
      But over indulgence any anything leads to missing out on other experiences. Or speeding through just to put another notch on the experience belt also leads to missing out.
      Sue mentioned reading every word, because a writer took the time to write them. A good point for reading every word. Mimi mentioned skimming to see if it’s something worth reading every word.
      I guess what I am getting at is nuance. Haste skips over nuance. Similar perhaps to missing visual or auditory cues when reading text.
      Just more of my musing on the whole issue and digesting points of view …

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      1. Sandy Randall Avatar
        Sandy Randall

        I got interrupted by the neighbor kids in the middle of typing all that!

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      2. GD Deckard Avatar
        GD Deckard

        Sandy,
        “I hiked to enjoy the view, the scenery etc. He hiked to get to the end and declare an accomplishment.”

        Ha! Thanks for the memory flash-back. Not me, I play video games for exercise. But I had a friend who hiked mountains. There are 30 or so hikeable mountains in Colorado. Arthur Ashmole was an Englishman, with a Masters in Economics from Cambridge, who enjoyed passing other hikers on the way up. He got off on watching them approach him as he sat at the top, smoking a cigarette.
        (Ack! Don’t get me started on Arthur stories.)

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        1. Sandy Randall Avatar
          Sandy Randall

          Hmm I wonder if there’s a bit of Arthur in Roy?

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          1. GD Deckard Avatar
            GD Deckard

            😝Probably.

            Liked by 1 person

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    2. GD Deckard Avatar
      GD Deckard

      Arlo Guthrie! What can beat Alice’s Restaurant for instant gratification?

      Liked by 4 people

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      1. Sandy Randall Avatar
        Sandy Randall

        That’s not a quick song GD! lol tends to be a Thanksgiving listen for my family

        Liked by 2 people

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        1. Sue Ranscht Avatar
          Sue Ranscht

          Lol! Every instant brings gratification and the assurance that you can get anything you want at Alice’s Restaurant — excepting Alice!

          Liked by 3 people

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    3. Sue Ranscht Avatar
      Sue Ranscht

      I don’t believe there is anything inherently wrong with instant gratification. The problem I see is that it too easily becomes the default entitlement of too many people, especially those who grew up knowing nothing else. The impatience that engenders does not lead to a willingness to take the time necessary to build bridges of understanding and compassion between people who disagree on any number of issues.

      But when you’re seeking knowledge or entertainment, being able to access it on demand seems happily gratifying to me.

      Liked by 3 people

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      1. mimispeike Avatar
        mimispeike

        I have never been hot to build bridges of understanding. I’m less hot today than usual.

        I just got my brother’s annual several-page Christmas letter/photo collage, full of … let’s see … peace and freedom … getting a horse … going to Hawaii … “taking charge of all aspects of our lives” … Family time! Free-range eggs! Getting $199,999! (Don’t have a clue what that means) Building tree houses! Home-schooled prodigies! Going to Japan! A a multi-generational family lives the good life down there, bankrolled by a multi-million-dollar inheritance.

        Don’t know the current phrase. I’ll go with: Gag me with a spoon. The good thing about those pioneers of woke-ism? A few of them are the armatures on which I’ve built some of my characters in Sly.

        Liked by 3 people

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        1. GD Deckard Avatar
          GD Deckard

          Mimi,
          I’m with you on woke-ism and on not bothering to build bridges of understanding. But if someone needs a bridge of understanding, I’d sell them one. That’d wake them up.

          Liked by 3 people

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      2. GD Deckard Avatar
        GD Deckard

        Sue,
        “especially those who grew up knowing nothing else”
        Years ago, I sat in an airport bar talking to a manager from 3M. He told me about his company’s hiring practice at the time. 3M then hired people from specific generations for specific jobs. The thinking was, they could better predict how a new employee would do if they looked at when he or she grew up. That told them what the new employee’s values were likely to be. That made sense to me then and still does.

        I was raised by people who fought and won WWII. They were, for the most part, proud and independent people. We believed we could do anything.

        My kids were raised by us who, as a nation, used 70% of the world’s resources. They are confident in their ability to get whatever they really need or want out of life.

        Their children are raised by people who showered them with everything they could possibly want. They expect that from life.

        This will not end well.

        Liked by 3 people

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        1. Sandy Randall Avatar
          Sandy Randall

          I think the buck stops with my kids generation (born in the 90’s) none of them have kids …
          I also read an article that said Americans are having less children so we are seeing a population downturn.
          With that thought in mind … perhaps humanity is slowly pressing the reset button?
          I’ve always had this thought that things either swing like a pendulum or go full circle.
          Though not sure how that works with dirty dishes …

          Liked by 3 people

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          1. GD Deckard Avatar
            GD Deckard

            Sandy,
            Humanity may well be pressing the reset button.
            I’m toying with a novel idea (pun intended.) What precipitates the demise of one species of human and the rise of a new human? Most would cite environmental factors. I’d say 8 billion people fighting over the planet’s resources will do us in -so much for the science. The fiction would be the new guys. What will they be like?

            Liked by 2 people

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            1. Sandy Randall Avatar
              Sandy Randall

              I look forward to reading that!

              Liked by 2 people

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        2. Sue Ranscht Avatar
          Sue Ranscht

          GD,
          In addition to having fought and won WWII, those parents (mine included) grew up during the Depression. I think that contributed to their attitude that financial security was of utmost importance, so they expected us to get a good education that would lead to a good, secure job. And it was completely unimportant that you enjoy either one of those things. Your passions were for hobbies. I agree about their pride and independence, and they wanted us to have better lives than they did, but they still expected us to respect authority. We believed we could do anything because they taught us the world was there for us to use to build a future of progress — bigger cars and highways, more electronics and plastics, convenience foods. Explore space. Conservation and ecology were not in their vocabulary.

          So it’s not like we intentionally set out to destroy the planet or even use most of it up. The warnings about the harm we were ignorantly causing first sounded in the late Sixties and early Seventies and it took decades to raise mainstream consciousness. The backlash of the anti-war protests and the Hippie era and the drive to question authority put a large part of the population on a different path from the one our parents took, and led many to attempt to pass those values down to our kids.

          The confidence our children may have that they will be able to get whatever they really need or want out of life may actually spring from a sense of entitlement. Many have rejected the idea that a college education has value, but at the same time, they can’t imagine owning a house unless there are two above-average incomes. Fewer have chosen to have children. Those who have, as you say, seem to have showered them with everything they could possibly want. Often, I fear, for the parents’ convenience rather than for the benefit of their children’s upbringing. Either way, the children do seem to expect that from life.

          So even though my view of our generational transitions is less idealistic than yours, we arrive at the same place: This will not end well.

          Or maybe, when cold, hard reality greets our grandchildren’s adulthoods with a smack in the face, they will mount their own backlash to bring their own children up more responsibly than the rest of us have done.

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          1. GD Deckard Avatar
            GD Deckard

            Sue,
            “they can’t imagine owning a house unless there are two above-average incomes. Fewer have chosen to have children.”

            Those are choices enabled by technology. Without the pill, there would be fewer two-family incomes and more children. I point this out because, I think, you are exactly right that “a smack in the face” from cold reality will change attitudes. Basic human behavior includes a wide variety of possibilities. We can adapt to reality.

            We have never invented a technology that we did not embrace. E=Mc2? That’d wipe out a city. Oooh, we gotta do that!

            But we’ve always come back to reality. Probably why we’re still around.

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            1. Sandy Randall Avatar
              Sandy Randall

              Sue and GD, you both speak from my parents generation. (GD is the same age as my dad afterall) My mom was the hippie chick from San Diego and my dad was a midwestern city boy with a motorcycle cop for a dad. How those two ever got together mystifies me … but here I am lol. My family history on both sides fascinate me. So rich and full of interesting characters. Characters who are essentially the fabric of this country. Perhaps I should recount, at least for my kids, the stories I know, perhaps I will. At any rate, It seemed my grandparents and great grand parents (I knew my greats on my moms side) were very certain in what they were doing in life. How they needed to raise their kids and what was expected. My moms generation was were I think doubt set in. Like I said, Mom was a Hippie Chick. Dad met her at San Diego State while on a basketball scholarship. Life didn’t go according to plan for either of them. While Dad did graduate with a Masters in Education, as was expected of him, he also got my Mom pregnant … No Roe v Wade yet, they weren’t married… Mom spent time in a home for unwed mothers. I consequently have an older brother I’ve never met and didn’t know about until I was 18. Long after my parents divorced and mom remarried. Divorce became more frequent in my generation. Roe v Wade happened. Nixon happened. Gas shortage happened. Men on the moon happened. These are all events I remember clearly from childhood.
              I think of the things my kids remember. The technology. My oldest son once asked me if I ever sat and watched a printer print when I was his age. Ok he was four at the time and a dot matrix printer was fascinating to him. I remember laughing and saying no, but I watched men walk on the moon.
              The point is, while our parents attempt to mold us, we are tugged and pulled by technology and shaped in other ways. Some detrimentally, some in fantastic new ways. I also don’t want to discount music. I think each generation has a soundtrack.
              However, I still think no matter our technological advances, our societal advances tend to be slower. Humans love to look back, cling to tradition, hold on to perceived good times and discount the stains. Think of it this way…
              You’re going through your day. You blunder. Crappy things happen based on your error, but good things come from it too. You have to recount the tale. Do you report it exactly as it happened and matter of factly (Imagining Walter Cronkite here, ) or do you go full on talking head at your favorite cable news station, and try to spin the tale in your favor, neglecting or minimizing your blunder and the negative fallout in favor of highlighting the positive result of your blunder?
              I think human nature is to put a positive spin on our personal blunders. I think collectively we do this with our histories. I think we hope the past will go away and we can have a clean slate. GD I also believe this speaks to your comment on “wokeness.” A word I believe is used in a way it was never intended, but that’s a topic for a whole different discussion. Lets look at WWII. An event that happened more than half a century ago. The generation that fought in WWII is largely gone. Their children are long in the tooth. Their grandchildren not far behind. Their great grandchildren maybe get a blurb about it in school, but they have decided college isn’t worth it, and they can’t own a house without two very good incomes. Forget having children, besides children are getting shot in schools anyway, so why have kids? (A sentiment from one of my kids btw). While I have hope humans will turn a corner and do better, I think the slap in the face is already happening.
              I also think our governing politicians are too old. The policies they make now won’t reverberate until they’re dead, leaving a generation yet unborn to deal with the fallout. I think the young’uns just leaving high school need to step up and take control, problem is, who’s teaching them? Parents? Social media? TV? video games?
              For the human race to survive, we really need to stop trying to be what we were and decide who we’re gonna be. I doubt I’ll live long enough to see how it goes.

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              1. GD Deckard Avatar
                GD Deckard

                Good points, Sandy. As McLuhan said, we view life through a rear-view mirror.

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              2. Sue Ranscht Avatar
                Sue Ranscht

                I agree with GD those are good points. As for the reporting we would do, I am personally more inclined to the Uncle Walter approach because it’s a more effective teaching tool for the following generations. I spent time pointing out to my son what I learned from the mistakes I made. trying to help him be comfortable with taking responsibility for his mistakes because we ALL make them. What matters is that we learn from them and take those lessons forward. I wanted him to see his mom working to accomplish things and not giving up if the first, second, third… attempts didn’t work. I wanted to be a strong, positive problem solver, and whether the solutions worked the first time or the tenth time, I frequently said, “If I can do it, anybody can. You just have to do the work.”

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                1. Sandy Randall Avatar
                  Sandy Randall

                  I agree Sue, I really miss the days when the news was reported and not sensationalized. In my twenties, when I lived in the Netherlands, my husband at the time was searching for a particular newspaper at the news stand. I asked him why he chose one over the other and his response stuck with me. He said he preferred a a specific newspaper because they did not sensationalize the news. He was only five years older than me, but he had the sensibilities of an old man. As I got to know his father, a man who had been a teenager during WWII in Holland, I began to understand where he learned values like that. Though his parents were divorced, I got to know both of them and heard from them their very interesting experiences of WWII as teens.

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            2. Sue Ranscht Avatar
              Sue Ranscht

              You’re right, GD. Too few people ask the ever-present question: Just because we can, should we?

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  8. Mike Van Horn Avatar
    Mike Van Horn

    I would never have met any of you without social media. Lots of negative sentiment here, but I think it’s overstated. Social media has greatly benefited my writing. I’ve connected with people all over the world on the forums I participate in.
    I don’t do Twitter, Tiktok, Instagram, WhatsAp. I don’t gossip or get into political arguments. I don’t follow celebrities. I don’t get my news from social media. So I suppose this means I’ve insulated myself from many of the negative consequences.
    For me, the biggest negative is spending too much time reading irrelevant articles on Quora and Medium. I sometimes use that as an excuse to avoid diving into my writing. But if it weren’t for social media, I’d find some other excuse.

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    1. GD Deckard Avatar
      GD Deckard

      Exactly, Mike.

      I discovered writing communities on Facebook. The Sci-Fi Roundtable made me a Knight (I have the t-shirt to prove it😏.) In that group is where Sci-Fi Lampoon magazine was born. I’m grateful for the criticism lavished upon my writing from writers who knew better than I.

      And I admit, I may have instigated a political argument or two by pointing out their stupid mistakes to others. But it was all in fun. Nobody, to my knowledge, ever changed their thinking even though I knew they were wrong. 😝

      And a book launch on Facebook still helps sell books.

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  9. Perry Palin Avatar
    Perry Palin

    I read a regular blog about fly fishing in the Driftless (a region in the Midwest). The author is a scientist, and he writes like a scientist. He had a guest author for his latest blog post, and he asked for comments on what we thought of it. The narrative was accompanied by photos and artist renderings. The blog was total crap, both the information that was conveyed and the way it was written. One of the commenters said he believed the artist was on acid. The “guest author” was AI. If that’s the writing that comes out of artificial intelligence, we’re not going to be replaced anytime soon.

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    1. Sandy Randall Avatar
      Sandy Randall

      Not that I was concerned, but it’s good to know that AI writes crap.
      The advent of AI writing and art is similar to self checkin at the airport and self checkout at the grocery store. I don’t know about the grocery store (I’m too lazy to use self checkout and still prefer a checker and courtesy clerk to bag my groceries) but at the airport, while it did have some impact on jobs, I found it still required people to handle the baggage and walk people through the check in process.
      The only thing I objected to as a union rep, was the outsourcing of the baggage handling. During the pandemic, they suspended the vendor contract, forcing us to handle bags again. My coworkers could care less about losing jobs. They simply didn’t want to do the work! Another nail in the coffin for my job as the union rep. As it is they still haven’t replaced me! lol.
      The point is, people are coming to a point where some tasks are too mundane and too back breaking and too boring. I think this ties into the Instant Gratification, Generational trends, and social changes we’ve seen throughout the last few decades.
      I keep thinking “Huh. This must be what the codgers in their late fifties must have been thinking about those of us in our teens and twenties.”
      Perspective on the other foot. I try so hard to keep this in mind when talking to my twenty something kids …

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  10. GD Deckard Avatar
    GD Deckard

    I think there may be two “types” of A.I. One is mostly machine learning. A machine is programmed to “learn” how to do a task. Like serve meals at a fast-food restaurant. Fair enough. My son can write those programs. And the result seems quite “intelligent.”

    But we don’t know what intelligence is. Not really. We can define the term operationally and then program a machine to perform specific tasks. And call the machine intelligent. And we can write algorithms that mimic human speech. But until we actually know what it is that we are artificially creating, I don’t believe that we can recreate it.

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  11. The Anonymous Scrivener Avatar
    The Anonymous Scrivener

    Personally I think that social media has changed us. Even writers dont seem to read the sorts if books which have enriched our language and forms of expression over centuries. It bas made a lot of what I read on line seem less creative, more formulaic and, dare I say it, less expressive as a result.

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    1. Sandy Randall Avatar
      Sandy Randall

      Either that or the writers who do read the sorts of books that enrich our language, are being read because it requires investing time and joy in reading. Two elements that instant gratification eschews. I may be a bit stuck on trying to understand IG.🤣
      By the way … fantastic name, Anonymous Scrivener. I love it!

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      1. mimispeike Avatar
        mimispeike

        I (aside from things read strictly for research) read books in which every beautifully crafted sentence is instant gratification in itself.

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  12. DocTom Avatar
    DocTom

    Hi Folks,
    Fascinating discussion. I don’t have the time to comment now, just wanted to let you know that Curtis went in for a minor surgical proceedure yesterday. If you get the chance wish him well.
    Also, I don’t know if it’s beed mentioned, but Curtis is also trying to help raise money for a school in Madagascar. He’s been posting to utube. Here are 2 links. The first video is just an explanation of what Curtis is going (or trying) to do, the second is about the charity.

    1st https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTK7VClOMjY&t=3s

    2nd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO4TCx0hr1o&t=42s

    Just wanted to let everyone know.

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    1. Sandy Randall Avatar
      Sandy Randall

      Thanks Tom!! Will do and thanks for the links!

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    2. curtisbausse Avatar
      curtisbausse

      Thanks very much, Tom! All went well, recovering gently now, and hopefully back to full mobility in a week or so. Thanks also for the YouTube links. A new venture for me – YouTube is a whole different world, the inner workings of which were (and largely still are) a mystery to me. I’m not sure if it’s a world I’ll want to inhabit, but if nothing else, I’ll learn enough to be able to write a blog post about it here.

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      1. GD Deckard Avatar
        GD Deckard

        Glad to hear that you are feeling better and will soon be fine, Curtis.
        👍

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      2. Sandy Randall Avatar
        Sandy Randall

        Ditto to what GD said. Glad you’re on the mend. I enjoyed your You tubes. Thanks Tom for outing Curtis! lol
        Curtis, the school in Madagascar is a phenomenal cause. Education is such a blessing that we unfortunately take for granted. Thank you for the reminder how lucky we are, and providing the opportunity to help others who don’t have the rich opportunities we have.

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        1. curtisbausse Avatar
          curtisbausse

          Thank you, Sandy! Both for your generosity and for the unerring truth of your comment. The older I get, the more such matters matter to me, for some reason. Perhaps because I look at the world and dream of how different it could be. Currently working on a text about Utopia…

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          1. Sandy Randall Avatar
            Sandy Randall

            Isn’t that why we write? I think if we bottled up the Utopia’s in our heads we would explode. So we write them. I think we also learn that Utopia is to be strived for but never reached. I believe it is what keeps us moving through life. But then I also think when we die, we receive the answers to everything! lol
            Anyhow, You’re welcome Curtis. I appreciate the work you are doing.

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  13. victoracquista Avatar
    victoracquista

    Interesting:
    https://www.writtenwordmedia.com/the-top-10-publishing-trends-for-2023/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=January%20Author%20Email%20Non%20Clicker%20A&utm_term=356%20DAYS%20ANY%20ENGAGEMENT%20AUTHOR%20LIST%20W/%20CLICKS_received_did_not_click

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    1. Sandy Randall Avatar
      Sandy Randall

      This is a terrific resource! Thanks for sharing Victor. PS I’m totally enjoying “Serpent Rising”. I’ve been listening to the audio version. I have to think you and GD have had many conversation about history and world belief systems … I feel like you have influenced each other somehow in your novels…
      GD I’m about 75% of the way through Phoenix Diary. My time to actually read has been so limited lately.

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      1. victoracquista Avatar
        victoracquista

        What’s curious to me about the publishing trends is everything AI related. I attended a great presentation over a year ago that did a deep dive into AI writing (both fiction and nonfiction) and AI art. Legal issues were also covered. I was pretty blown away by the end of the presentation. When you view the AI work products, which was part of the presentation, it is quite good. And, it’s getting better!
        At a recent Mystery Writers of America chapter meeting we were discussing this as well. I suggested that authors might need to start including a label on their book covers–NO AI–something similar to NO GMOs on food labels.
        I appreciate your kind words about my novel. Unfortunately, I think the narrator did a poor job–many mispronounced words (despite a detailed pronunciation guide prepared by me at publisher’s request), pressured speech, poor characterizations of key characters (BB is Oxford-educated and very erudite but narrator makes him sound like Crocodile Dundee. She makes Bryson out to be like Sheldon from Big Bang. He’s not arrogant at all, more of a boyish nerd.) I had no input into the narration beyond the pronunciation guide.
        This “Dear Reader” letter explains why I wrote the book and what I hope readers get from it: https://victoracquista.com/dear-reader/ The Pod-Log tab on the website has some interesting backstory that you might enjoy. If you want some fun, listen to the podcast episode on Serpent Rising linked on the left side. It’s pretty wild–I got carried away with sound effects.
        Thanks a bunch for your kind words!!

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        1. Sandy Randall Avatar
          Sandy Randall

          Oooohhh Thanks Victor! I’m thoroughly going to enjoy all the “writer provided “ extras.
          As for the narrator…
          Yes to all your points … I have so many thoughts on narration… I think you’ve just inspired my next blog post!

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          1. victoracquista Avatar
            victoracquista

            I would love to get your feedback on the extra content, especially the pod-logs and the special edition podcast episode. I put a lot of work into the extras but beyond the creative enjoyment, I think the effort was wasted. I did nothing extra for the second book in the series. FYI, book two has a different narrator. She is completely different but is better. She has fewer mispronunciations but also has voice characterizations that are off. By the publisher simply giving me a chance to provide feedback, I could have helped improve the end result. I couldn’t even finish listening. GRRGH! When a narrator does not do a work justice, it penalizes the author. I’ve listened to some fantastic narrations that truly enhance a book. I shall look forward to that blog post.

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            1. Sandy Randall Avatar
              Sandy Randall

              I enjoyed the podcast extras you did for Serpent Rising. It was also a good opportunity for me to jot down and solidify some ideas for a near future blog post on audio books.
              I agree whole heartedly with you that a crap narrator can penalize the author. I finished Serpent Rising. While the narrator grated a bit on my ears, it wasn’t too bad and I could concentrate on your work. I downloaded Revelation. I decided I’m going to have to go with the kindle version. The narrator for Revelation reminded me of an Iranian actress Shohreh Aghdashloo.

              (here’s her Wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shohreh_Aghdashloo)

              While I like the actress her deep gravelly voice would annoy me as a narrator, or at least she would have a limited genre or story type that would accommodate her voice. I will give the audio version a second go. No promises. But this does lend itself to helping me write this particular blog post. Plus it is something I have thought about a lot, because I do use the AI speakers on my writing program to read back to me. I am lousy with punctuation. Hearing my sentences read to me helps… a little. On my to do list is a note to brush up on basic punctuation. Nowhere near as fun as writing … so it remains pretty low on the list lol.

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              1. victoracquista Avatar
                victoracquista

                Thanks for all the awesome feedback and your support! I’m glad you did not purchase the audio for “Revelation.”
                I agree about the gravelly voice. I too like Shohreh Aghdashloo, but I wouldn’t care for her to narrate a book. By the way, book one was more adventure and had the narrative structure of a hero’s journey. Book two is more thriller with faster pacing. Hope you like it and thanks again!

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                1. Sandy Randall Avatar
                  Sandy Randall

                  I also meant to add that your own narration of your work is very good … I know it’s a lot of work and not for everyone, but you should perhaps consider being your own narrator …

                  And you’re welcome … I take my role as a reader very seriously!

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