I could argue against myself that creativity is an expression of the individual and as such is never objective. But writing requires that we split and divide all things as a means of control. And doing that requires a certain objectivity on the part of the writer.

Consider cadence. Staccato may make a point but choppy puts readers off. Poets know cadence. The meter contributes to the meaning by evoking images and feelings with the timing the poet intends. We write best when we draw the reader into our story. Make the world coherent, the characters true, the plot interesting, and illusion can take over the reader’s mind. All of this requires control and control requires the writer to be objective.

This is all the more obvious when writing a novel as opposed to flash fiction. I love flash fiction because I’m a lazy writer. Condensing an event or thought into a story can happen in a, um, flash. But stream of consciousness will not sustain a novel, for me, anyway. I need time to think on it. I write notes, passages, chapters. Then I use Windows’ Read Aloud to listen to the chapters. Do the words evoke what I intended to write? Never always. It’s a creative process. And an objective process.

What about your writing process? Are you lost in the story? Do you see it objectively? Both?

DISCLAIMER:
The above cartoon has nothing to do with the blog. I just like it.


25 responses to “Creative Objectivity, Anyone?”

  1. Sue Ranscht Avatar

    Here I stumble over the use of “objective”. What would objective creativity be, exactly? Emotionless? Sterile? Formulaic? Imagination without a spark? Uninspired? So black or white it isn’t subject to a variety of opinions?

    It seems to me, at least in regard to fiction, that “deliberate” might be a more accurate term for what I think you’re describing. Sometimes creativity seems to combust spontaneously, and other times it takes a deliberate process: deciding to write a story, then deciding the subject of the story, then creating the plot, setting, and characters. Even so, every choice we make comes from our own experiences, likes and dislikes, pet peeves, and how we react emotionally to each aspect of both the story and the process. The creative aspects seem to be subjective.

    Can we read something and objectively describe it as creative? I think so, just as we can recognize a lack of creativity. On the other hand, I might read something unlike anything I’ve ever read before, and think it’s creative, but you’ve read many things like it so you think the author’s an unimaginative hack.

    I believe the editing process lends itself to objectivity. We read what we’ve written allowing it to succeed or fail in moving us subjectively, and objectively decide that it doesn’t communicate what we wanted it to in the way we hoped it would. Then we have to figure out how to fix it. That also takes objectivity, but the solution has to satisfy our subjective sensibilities. To me, that means the creativity itself must be subjective.

    Of course, it’s possible I’ve misunderstood or misinterpreted something in your post, GD. I welcome your enlightenment.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. GD Deckard Avatar

      I understand and agree with what you are saying, Sue.
      To answer your question, because it is a great one (and because I sense a fun conversation coming 🙂 )
      “Here I stumble over the use of “objective”. What would objective creativity be, exactly?”

      We might agree that creative means “1: marked by the ability or power to create : given to creating”
      – Mirrian-Webster

      And that objective means “a: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations”
      – Mirrian-Webster

      To me the question is, can a writer evaluate their own creative story without distorting their conclusions with personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations? I should hope so. It means we can learn to do better.

      The deeper question, is there a reality independent of us, is arguable. But reality is also demonstrative. We know, deep down, that there is a reality even if we don’t like it.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. Sue Ranscht Avatar

        You are always a joy-filled challenge to converse with, GD!

        A frequent frustration when I research any word’s definition: How can any helpful definition contain variations of the word it is meant to define? I would expect a definition of “creativity” to refer to the ability to generate something new, be it an idea or an object. An act of making that is unique to the maker. Putting existing materials or ideas together in new ways. Using the imagination to produce something no one else’s imagination has produced before.

        Each of those definitions requires creators to “distort” whatever they begin with in order to change it into something new and unique. I believe creativity itself is not objective.

        Hmm. Defining objective as “a: expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations” seems to rule out creating anything but an amalgamation of facts or conditions we’ve already accepted as givens. Granted, one definition of genius is often stated as the ability to see relationships between seemingly unrelated things/ideas. It implies the creation of something new. The building blocks might necessarily be objective, but the process they go through to make something new is definitely creative.

        “[C]an a writer evaluate their own creative story without distorting their conclusions with personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations?” I hope so, too. And I believe it can be done. We may vary at the level of success we attain when we evaluate our own creativity, but I always strive to be objective when I evaluate in order to edit.

        I think arguing about the existence of a reality independent of us is, as a friend of mine used to say, an act of mental masturbation. Reality is what is. It doesn’t depend on our perception or understanding of it. It doesn’t care about anything. It simply is. Ever moving, ever changing, living, dying. We are unarguably a part of it. Will it continue forever? We don’t know. We can’t know. But if Reality as we experience it ends, and all its chaos and order, matter and time — whatever that is — cease to be, the new reality will be a Void. And we’ll never even know.

        And I’m okay with all that uncertainty. It’s part of reality.

        Liked by 2 people

        1. GD Deckard Avatar

          Yup, creativity itself is not objective. But objectivity helps us to understand if what we writers create is worth reading.

          You may be exactly right that the ability to see relationships between seemingly unrelated things/ideas implies the creation of something new. I just never thought of it that way. I recall taking an IQ test that measured that ability while taking psychology courses at Ohio State and I thought the answers were obvious. For example, a question was “What do a bee and a ladybug have in common?” The answer of course: “They’re both alive.” I distinctly remember thinking that answer was a bit dumb. I got the answers right. But, jeesh, if that’s genius, no wonder we spent eons sharpening stones before we learned to hone steel.

          To me, creativity implies something new and useful. The Phoenix Diary is about teens who access their genetic memories. One such scene occurs when homo sapiens became homo sapiens sapiens, that moment in time when some kids first learned to create. As one of them put it,
          “The others see only what their eyes show. They do only what they always did. But we can see new things in our heads and then we can make what we see become real.”
          What they made real were useful things that over time made creative humans the dominant life form.

          Maybe, creative writing that is worth reading changes the reader?

          Liked by 3 people

  2. mimispeike Avatar
    mimispeike

    Did you make the phrase up?

    I have no idea what it means, except that it might describe something like Truman Capote’s ‘In Cold Blood’.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. GD Deckard Avatar

      I thought I did, but a quick Google suggests I did not.
      I meant a writer’s ability to be objective about their writing.
      But now I see (objectively) 😝 that my blog title fails because it allows too many interpretations.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Sandy Randall Avatar

        Yet it doesn’t fail, because it invites exciting conversation… I think you’ve achieved enough vagueness to invite thoughts and discourse.
        It’s 245am and I’m waiting in my car to go to work… vague are my thoughts!

        Liked by 1 person

        1. GD Deckard Avatar

          Sandy, thank you. Vagueness does invite thoughts and discourse. But I know I can be too vague. Years ago, I invented the word, Glabelhammies, and put it on websites just to see it pop up on Google. It did. Glabelhammies has no meaning, but it became a part, albeit tiny, of global Internet discourse. There’s still one reference to it out there.

          Hmm, maybe Roy could sponsor an orator whose mind-numbing vagueness appeals to a wide variety of people, each of whom hears only what they want to hear. Oh, wait. Politicians already do that. nm.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. Sandy Randall Avatar

            Just don’t let John’s dog get too close to the Glabelhammies … he might be a little too rough for them … just sayin’

            Liked by 1 person

          2. Sandy Randall Avatar

            So of course google Glabelhammies, ( I think if I had been a man living near Oxford back in the 20’s and 30’s I might have been a Philologist) It brought up a 2016 post from Carl. Google suggested I might be looking for Globalhams … my mind ascribed it’s own definition … Politicians and celebrities lol.

            Liked by 1 person

  3. mimispeike Avatar
    mimispeike

    This is something to think about long and hard: are we ever able to be objective about our work?

    The advice is, take a break from your writing, a few weeks, or months, and return to it with fresh eyes. But I’ve been writing my stories and my worlds for so long, they are burnt into my soul. There is no such thing as fresh eyes for me.

    Oh, I go back in and see a word that doesn’t need to be there, sometimes even a whole sentence, but the overall, the structure, the complexity, etc., the style/flow, I rarely make any major changes to.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Sandy Randall Avatar

      I agree Mimi… lots to think about here. It’s now 530am and I’m just getting my first shot of coffee … lol
      System is slowly coming online…

      Liked by 1 person

    2. GD Deckard Avatar

      Very interesting, Mimi. I never thought about it before, but perhaps objectivity means precisely what Mirrian-Webster says it means: “perceived without distortion.” It does not say “perceived without personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations.” I’ve always loved a good dictionary and now I think Mirrian-Webster, and you, have taught me that objectivity includes those things. Just not “distortion” which I would define here as writing that does not reflect my “personal feelings, prejudices, and interpretations,” which, now that I think of it, is what makes my writing mine.

      So go ahead, examine your stories and your worlds through your own eyes and soul. Those are the stories and worlds readers want to see.

      Liked by 2 people

  4. Perry Palin Avatar
    Perry Palin

    Our local live theatre just produced a staged reading of “The Lifespan of a Fact”, a play “based on the true events surrounding John D’Agata’s essay ‘What Happens There’ about the suicide of teenager Levi Presely.” The play presents a conflict between the objective needs of the fact checker and the subjective craft of the essayist.

    I’ve just finished reading a collection of short essays by Michael Perry, a New York Times best selling author who lives on a farm in Wisconsin. A member of the gig economy, he writes for magazines and newspapers, he writes books, he writes songs and plays and sings in a country rock band, and he hosts a weekly radio variety show. He is at the point in his career where he can charge a handsome appearance fee to read outtakes from essays and to speak about writing, and at the end of the evening he sells more of his books. Michael Perry has likened his writing process to carving concrete with a plastic spoon. His finished essays are concrete and effective.

    I don’t know that it is easier to write flash fiction than it is to write a novel. A good writer I know says that in a short story every word has to be studied and only adopted if it moves the piece forward, but in a novel a writer can wander down blind alleys, turn back, walk all around the main subject and still find a right end. I confess my own experience is mostly in shorter pieces. I am still carving away at the phrases in my first novel.

    When I am writing something I am not lost in the story. I live in the story until it is done and after it is done. For our winter Creative Non-Fiction writing class I am writing about black bears. I wake up at night in a hot tight bear hug of sheets and blankets and with another, better way to show the left handedness of bears.

    The class is about non-fiction, so it is supposed to be real, but told “creatively”. In class last week our instructor gave us seven minutes to write something to a prompt, which we would then share in breakout groups. My breakout partners told about the emotion of their experiences. I showed mine through setting and dialogue. I’m trying to understand if “objective” and “subjective” have anything to say about that.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. GD Deckard Avatar

      Wow, Perry.
      “The play presents a conflict between the objective needs of the fact checker and the subjective craft of the essayist.”
      Could that mean objectivity is relevant? The essayist might be very objective about his essay.

      “My breakout partners told about the emotion of their experiences. I showed mine through setting and dialogue. I’m trying to understand if “objective” and “subjective” have anything to say about that.”
      What a great question! I suspect emotional first-person is subjective and show-don’t-tell is analytical. That’s just my opinion. But I’ll go with it for now. At least until someone points out that great show-don’t-tell scenes can evoke deep, strong emotions. Then the waters are muddied.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Perry Palin Avatar
        Perry Palin

        GD, not to ruin the play for you, but the essayist reinvented some facts in the interest of art, and the fact checker tries to pull him up short for the essay’s offenses to the survivors of Levi Presley and another suicide victim.

        “I suspect emotional first-person is subjective and show-don’t-tell is analytical. That’s just my opinion. But I’ll go with it for now. At least until someone points out that great show-don’t-tell scenes can evoke deep, strong emotions.” In the class the instructor tells us to “show” what happens through description and then “tell” about the impact through reflection. I don’t generally care for writing the reflection. I believe a scene well shown does evoke strong emotions. I immediately think of the closing scenes of Hemingway’s “For Whow the Bell Tolls” and “Farewell to Arms”.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. GD Deckard Avatar

          Perry,
          You could write a blog about “show” and about “tell.” I had a hard time understanding them. Other writers kept pointing out how their deliberate use would improve my writing. I thought I understood, but when they finally clicked, I was delighted to discover something new and very useful. If you would write them up and put them in “draft,” I’d post that blog as soon as I could.

          Like

  5. coraleggcalypso92586 Avatar
    coraleggcalypso92586

    I’m a devoted Apple Pages writer, using it for almost everything. When I finish a chapter, I read aloud for, as you alluded to, you can “hear” if it works or not. What I’d not considered is using MS Word for the read aloud portion. Fantastic idea. I don’t like the notion of going back to Word as I think it’s a bit bloated and clunky, but since I’d not thought about the ‘read aloud’ aspect, I might have to do something with it…maybe copy and paste and listen? Seems a bit “labor intensive”. Start using Word again? Now, I’m cheating on Pages, which I’ve come to absolutely love. Beg Apple to incorporate reading aloud into Pages? So many choices.

    I received a hardcover of Frankenstein the other day and began reading Mary Shelly’s reasons as to why she wrote it. What struck me was this phrase after she’d listened to her husband and Lord Byron exchange ideas writing a “ghost story and the mention of a piece of vermicelli beginning to move on its own after having been preserved:

    “When I placed my head on my pillow I did not sleep. Nor could I be said to think. My imagination, unbidden. Possessed and guided me, gifting the successive images that arose in my mind with a voided news far beyond the usual bounds of reverie. I saw-with shut eyes, but a true mental vision-I saw the pale student of unhalloed arts knoeeling beside the thing he had put together….”

    She became obsessed with an idea about writing this ghost story simply by hearing one chunk of a conversation, where before, she could not come up with an idea. Hence, Frankenstein was born.

    I guess the point here is often we’re searching for something to write about, and we don’t keep ourselves open enough, or listen enough, or process enough or…and it’s right there, or will appear when least expected.

    For me, writing my second novel (a sequel to the first…and being tortured this time though wherein the first effort flowed through my fingers and mind as rushing water through a hose) has me finally finding a “groove”, so much so I get those butterflies in my belly again…and can’t wait to get to the iPad to get it down. I read Shelly’s words and they hit home. If nothing else, read her author’s introduction, if you’ve not already…it’s worth it.

    Mike

    Michael DiMatteo Author of:

    Confessions of a High School Football Coach
    Flavius Fettotempi – a historical fiction novel set in the 14th century Aegean Sea 2. Falling Leaves: Short Stories about life…and endings

    *All available in print versions on Amazon, or wherever e-books are sold

    Blogs: Mike.dimatteo.substack.com Think31.com Twitter: Triple_31 Instagram: Historyguy31

    “What man is a man who has not made the world better”

    Get Outlookhttps://aka.ms/sdimjr for iOS ________________________________

    Liked by 2 people

    1. GD Deckard Avatar

      Thanks, Mike.
      I’m amazed at what mazes we wander in order to write. I’m also working on a novel, and I’m so pleased with the first 6,000 words that I’ve lost motivation to continue. WTF?! I’m thinking of deliberately writing the next chapter badly, so my motivation to “do better” will return. Come to think of it, I’m amazed anyone wants to torture themselves enough to write.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. coraleggcalypso92586 Avatar
        coraleggcalypso92586

        I’m in agreement!! I finally found a groove but not after hating the first 11 chapter. Ugh. I guess “sit down and write” is actually good advice. The muse will come after a time…I guess.

        -Mike

        Michael DiMatteo Author of:

        Confessions of a High School Football Coach 2. Flavius Fettotempi – a historical fiction novel set in 14th century Greece and North Africa

        “What man is a man who has not made the world better”

        Sent from my iPhone 13 Pro Get Outlookhttps://aka.ms/qtex0lfor iOS ________________________________

        Liked by 2 people

      2. Perry Palin Avatar
        Perry Palin

        Like flyfishing and pet ownership, writing is an escape from other tortures.

        Liked by 1 person

  6. Sandy Randall Avatar

    I have so many thoughts GD, Mimi, Perry and Mike … thank goodness you all voiced them for me! lol

    GD … your glabelhammie inspired me …

    Mike … go on loving Apple Pages … I love them too HOWEVER, to solve your reading problem … and avoid windows …. there is a program called Natural Reader, you can find it at naturalreaders.com I confess I have a subscription to it to get better voices … but it is good for reading essay length passages.

    In the last couple of years I also have a Dabblewriter subscription and they have a built in reader as well … with lots of interesting voices. I like choices lol. Hope those are helpful.

    Perry, as always you provide a steady stream of soulful insight. Thank you!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Mike Avatar
      Mike

      Awesome. Thank you for the suggestion

      Liked by 2 people

  7. mimispeike Avatar
    mimispeike

    I try to get inside my characters and see the world through their eyes. I finished another Showcase. In the final scene, Sly and Dee are arguing. Delly is off, in an herb garden. I picked up with my hen as she chokes on a grape. But I wrote it through my eyes. I did not have a genuine chicken experience.

    Dee’s eaten his fill of a platter of goodies, and set it aside. Delly loves the Brie, biscuits, grapes. But worms are delish too. What if she piled a worm on a sweet biscuit, and a dab of Camembert on top? Or worms dropped into a pot of fig jam, then, fig-jammed up, nibbled down a centimeter at a time, to prolong the pleasure?

    I write emotions and experiences. I want to know who my people are, what they’re thinking.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Mellow Curmudgeon Avatar

    Maybe we want a new use for an old prefix.  Both the objective data (like word count) that a computer could find and the subjective take that a writer has about they have written are obscure hints about what really matters: the allosubjective response.

    How does the piece look to someone other than the writer?  When something may still be too rough to be inflicted on someone else, I set it aside and read it later in a different context.  For example, I print out a Word document and read hard copy on another day in my recliner, not at my computer.  As Heraclitus predicted long ago, the me that reads now is not quite the same as the me that wrote earlier.  The new me does find flaws that the old me missed.

    Liked by 2 people

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